Would you disown your kids.... or chuck them out the house.. ever?

[ColdOopNorth]

So in the past few weeks I have spoken to 3 people (close friends/ family) who are at the end of their tether with teenage kids. Some of the things the kids have done are steal credit/ debit cards and run up huge bills, organise burglaries on the house when they knew the parents were out (seriously), get pregnant to demand a puppy in exchange for them getting an abortion... deal drugs, steal money from parents repeatedly and then lie about it.... the list is very long, these are just a few of the things I have heard. The parents have tried endlessly to get help, talk to the kids, try to find out what the hell has gone wrong and all the kids have siblings who are 'normal' human beings. The parents basically do not have a life now, they can't have a relationship if they are single, if they are married it puts huge pressure on the marriage, some are on anti-depressants... it is just terrible. So I have been thinking - when can you say enough is enough and kick your own kid out of the house? At what age.... such an awful dilemma for these people who blame themselves and feel like such failures.

My brother was one of these children.... he did many/most of the things in your examples. I thought it was because he was the golden child and my parents loved him too much to ever punish him for anything.
As an adult I found out he was just as neglected (also in the emotional sense) as I was from our parents. They didn’t punish him because that was hassle for them.
So effectively we both grew up in a “naice” family in a “naice” home but were ignored.
Our parents still say that they don’t know why he turned out like that and many people we know vaguely agree. Anyone that knows us well knows the truth.

Also I find the puppy one interesting as it makes me think that things like that have worked in the past. Did they give her the puppy?

My children, no.

Would I judge someone else for rejecting their child? Not without knowing the circumstances and narrative.

Interesting answers - I often rack my brains wondering why they turned out like this. All I know is that these parents have other kids who are lovely, they have sought help at every turn and (as far as I can judge from outside the families) really tried their hardest with these kids. It is really unfair to blame them - this has basically ruined their lives and also their other kids feel very resentful of their siblings. I am so grateful for my daughter - we have had ups and downs a plenty when she was a teenager but she is a decent human being and never did anything like this!

The puppy - yes they gave her it (big mistake eh)

I know a few families like this (where just one child has gone off the rails, their siblings are decent).
One in particular has caused her lovely mum no end of stress, I would have wanted to wash my hands of her but she doesn’t.

If one of my sons murdered another person or I knew they were dealing in drugs or anything else of a similar magnitude I would ask them to leave and find a flat. I would probably give them bond and pay first month's rent. I can't see it happening as neither smoke, one doesn't drink, both work hard and both kind and considerate.

Despite the parents being ‘nice’ people and having brought up decent human beings apart from the ‘problem’ child, I think there is nearly always a contributing factor form the early years. This may be favouring one child over another, being too harsh or too lenient, spoiling the child with material things, but not giving them enough time etc. etc. So if I were in that position, I would have to assume responsibility and only give up on my child if they were causing damage to others within the family. I would do my utmost to help as much as I could. If the situation were irretrievable when they were 18, I would have to issue an ultimatum, but would not, could not, cut off contact completely.

Hmm it’s a tough one. On the one hand I’d say yep tell them to move out and they need to stand on their own two feet.

Part of me thinks that the parents do play a role in their child’s behaviour and was it their upbringing? Could they have done things differently?

Then I think but that doesn’t account for kids that have shit upbringings but still turn out great adults...

I think part of the the blame has to be down to the ‘friendship’ groups and those the hand about with. If they get in with a wrong crowd and they’ve got that type of personality that lends itself to not caring so much, it’s easy to see why they go off the rails.

Tough one

I think the notion that all behaviour is down to environment/upbringing is simplistic - is there evidence that psychopathy and sociopathy etc can be genetic? (I don't know...).

But in answer to the OPs question - I cannot imagine disowning my kids. If they committed violent and or sexual crimes I would struggle, but I think I'd continue to support them.

@B1rthis

Children aren't born monsters. They're created by their environment. Parents control the environment. They made the bed, they lie in it.

I'm pretty sure the mothers of peodophiles and murderers would disagree with you

When I heard my ds hit his gf 'under my roof'.. ..
Told him the next day he had to move out. After a few weeks space we managed to salvage our relationship.. The gf decided to stay with him. They split up 3 years and I dc later.

Disown, no, but set firm boundaries, yes. Healthy boundaries are important and no I wouldn't tolerate any of that in my house, not even once. But certainly that behaviour doesn't just come out of the blue. It develops out of years of probably dysfunctional family dynamics.

That said, I have been disowned by my own family (as an adult). But it's because I called out a family member's child sex offences. And because my family is, well, quite dysfunctional, that is the unfortunate outcome. I expect the story they tell their friends, however, is quite different. In fact, I know it is, because they told awful lies about other family members who did the same before I found out the truth myself. So I also tend to take these sorts of things with a grain of salt.

The puppy - yes they gave her it (big mistake eh

There has to be something really f**ked up with these parents if they would kill their grandchildren to get a puppy
Which is the choice they made
I don’t see nice parents. I see people who are completely screwed up and have screwed up their children as well.

IMO where one child grows up to really disrupt the home, and other children that are fine, it is usually down to the parents.

By that I mean, the parents are usually gentle, too tolerant and too appeasing.

The child was probably a stubborn, headstrong toddler that needed a very different type of parenting to the others.

Unfortunately the parents weren't equipped with the skills and strength of personality to manage the challenging child.

It isn't easy to parent strong willed toddlers.
It isn't easy to be very firm and consistent.

It can cause terrible upset in a marriage if parents are not on the same page.

The child goes from toddler to pre teen, always being managed, accommodated , pleaded with.

Now the above is the extreme end of what happens and I have never heard of it.

However, I do know where there can be one child in 3 or 4, that needed a different type of parenting to their siblings.

I feel very sorry for the parents involved.

Busy lives, working FT, juggling so much, it can be very difficult to find the energy day in day out to stay firm.

Things then slowly escalate....a bit like the boiling frog analogy....and you have an utterly out of control situation.

I very strongly believe no one family member can be allowed to cause havoc in a family like above.

So yes, post 18, they should be asked to leave.

Siblings have every right to feel huge resentment towards their parents for allowing this to happen.

Oblovm me too.

2 very different dc I can see no 2 giving me trouble!

TableFlowerss
I think part of the the blame has to be down to the ‘friendship’ groups and those the hand about with. If they get in with a wrong crowd and they’ve got that type of personality that lends itself to not caring so much, it’s easy to see why they go off the rails

This was covered in the video. About not being there for children in the first 3 years of life. Not going to them when they cry. Not being there for them or having a loving environment with people around them to look after them when you can’t be.

@billy1966

IMO where one child grows up to really disrupt the home, and other children that are fine, it is usually down to the parents.

By that I mean, the parents are usually gentle, too tolerant and too appeasing.

The child was probably a stubborn, headstrong toddler that needed a very different type of parenting to the others.

Unfortunately the parents weren't equipped with the skills and strength of personality to manage the challenging child.

It isn't easy to parent strong willed toddlers.
It isn't easy to be very firm and consistent.

It can cause terrible upset in a marriage if parents are not on the same page.

The child goes from toddler to pre teen, always being managed, accommodated , pleaded with.

Now the above is the extreme end of what happens and I have never heard of it.

However, I do know where there can be one child in 3 or 4, that needed a different type of parenting to their siblings.

I feel very sorry for the parents involved.

Busy lives, working FT, juggling so much, it can be very difficult to find the energy day in day out to stay firm.

Things then slowly escalate....a bit like the boiling frog analogy....and you have an utterly out of control situation.

I very strongly believe no one family member can be allowed to cause havoc in a family like above.

So yes, post 18, they should be asked to leave.

Siblings have every right to feel huge resentment towards their parents for allowing this to happen.

I totally agree with this. My parents were much more tolerant and lenient towards my brother than they were to me BECAUSE HE WAS A BOY. He was allowed out late, going to parties and having girlfriends whereas me, I wasn't allowed any of it. I still to this day resent my brother and my parents. I'm glad I didn't go to those parties or do the shit my brother did as I turned out ok but my brother didn't turn out ok. He is into drugs, no job and no prospect. Whereas me, I'm way better off. I feel sorry for him but I wish my parents were equal and were very firm with him. He has always been the type that would get into trouble or just generally ask for trouble- I just don't understand how they didn't see this to lack discipline, consequences to his actions. They have literally failed him and they still don't see where this failure comes from. I've removed myself from them and hopefully I won't make the same mistake that my parents have made with my own DS.

I completely disagree with Billy:
"The child was probably a stubborn, headstrong toddler that needed a very different type of parenting to the others.

Unfortunately the parents weren't equipped with the skills and strength of personality to manage the challenging child."

I think a lot of parents consider their parenting, investigate, take advice.
You do most parents a dis-service: as if we we are too dim to have considered this.

Most aren't.
They have tried a lot of things. Often none work.

I was significantly helped by the SN boards when I first came to MN, many many years ago. I have since repaid the favour and tried to help others, in whatever minor capacity I can.

I have supported 3 families locally who were systematically bullied by school senco's, and had their ASD children taken away temporarily, when the schools reported the parent to SS for fii (munchausens) .

Do you honestly think that these types of parents hadn't considered their parenting. And hadn't tried almost everything.

You have no idea.
Clearly.

My mum chucked me out and accused me of being a slut. I wasn’t - I had a lovely long term boyfriend.

I simply moved in with him and his family, learnt what a real family was like and I flourished.

My mum was adamant that I was some kind of prostitute and we didn’t speak for years - she has since admitted she was bonkers and has apologised but I’ll never forgive her 100%.

For anyone thinking about chucking the awful teens out - contemplate your own mental health and gather actual evidence first.

If my DC were convicted criminals - I would kick them out.

In principle, yes, but I'd like to think I wouldn't give up on a teenager because they are young enough to change. Everyone has a limit to what they can tolerate though.

There has to be something really fked up with these parents if they would kill their grandchildren to get a puppy. Which is the choice they made. I don’t see nice parents. I see people who are completely screwed up and have screwed up their children as well.

Yes, screams out dysfunction and misery to me too. No doubt the parents have given in to the daughter's demands from an early age. This is just one step further. Although we don't know the full circumstances. It's possible that the daughter felt unloved which was why she ended up pregnant (lots of teenage pregnancies are a result of dysfunctional family background and kids feeling unnoticed and unloved by their parents, despite any material things that they're given). It could be that she sees either a baby OR a puppy as something to love and love her back. It's fucked up, but it could be an explanation.

In my experience, you often hear a different side from a child about situations like this when you look into it deeply. Adult friends and relatives of the family often only see the "surface" situations and only hear what the parents have to say on the matter eg "We gave her everything", "we treated her the same as the others", "this is how he repays us - I don't understand it". Even if you are the onlooker but DON'T fully agree with the parents' assertions, you're usually a friend of the parents and trying to be a support to THEM, rather than the child. And so you don't actually feel able to point out where they could be going wrong.

Often parents don't ASK for an opinion. They just say "I don't know where we've gone wrong" and all most friends in that situation would do would be so nod sympathetically and just listen. They tend not to ask "Is there anything you think I could be doing differently, please be totally honest no matter how hurtful you think it might be for me to hear" which could open up a genuine avenue for discussion.

Kids whose siblings appear perfectly behaved and normal have often been very sensitive to subtle differences in the way they are treated. Especially if they were difficult toddlers etc. They grow up hearing their parents labelling them as difficult. They hear conversations comparing them to their better behaved siblings. It appears to them that their parents love their siblings more. So they play up to get more attention. They are jealous of their siblings so display spiteful behaviour. It becomes a vicious circle, and the parents continue to see the sibling as the black sheep of the family. They talk to them in a harsher tone than the gentler, warmer tones they use with the easier siblings. They naturally offer less time with them as the relationship is difficult. The "difficult" child/teen notices all this. They see them patting the seat next to them, saying "Come on, DSibling, let's watch this together, whereas if the "difficult" teen sits down of their own accord next to them they may bristle and tense, expecting trouble. It's all subtle body language but it is NOTICED by the family member, and they feel more and more alienated.

It's fucked up and yet none of the other family members will see that at all.

@Oliversmumsarmy

TableFlowerss I think part of the the blame has to be down to the ‘friendship’ groups and those the hand about with. If they get in with a wrong crowd and they’ve got that type of personality that lends itself to not caring so much, it’s easy to see why they go off the rails

This was covered in the video. About not being there for children in the first 3 years of life. Not going to them when they cry. Not being there for them or having a loving environment with people around them to look after them when you can’t be.

Oh yes I don’t disagree with you, but there are plenty of kids that don’t get shown the love etc and create the attachments to the parents/caregivers, yet still go on to live as normal, well adjusted (well reasonably) adults. Same for the other way, where the kids have everything, love, attachment etc yet still go off the rails. That’s evident with well behaved siblings.

So nature can’t account for all episodes of defiant behaviour etc..

Theres nature and nurture at play and if you’ve got the type of personality, added with shit patents, it’s likely to end rubbish