We won't know our child's gender until they're 18

[shouldhavecalleditoatabix]

Is it just me or has the world gone crazy? Why is it such a problem to accept biological gender these days? Sure we need to address so many things in society including misogyny, hate, homophobia but why does that start with denying gender? We are born different. Each and every one of us. But we do have genetically defined sex. Nothing anyone does or says can change that. It is the fundamental basics of continuing to reproduce. Surely we should be addressing the acceptance of individuality and embracing the fact that anyone can look and act however they choose.  Emily Ratajkowski announces pregnancy - and says she won't reveal baby's gender news.sky.com/story/emily-ratajkowski-announces-pregnancy-and-says-she-wont-reveal-babys-gender-12115759

How will she know what name to give the kid? Which school to go to? Will she sign kiddo up for little soccer or little ballet - it be one of those awful parents who make a Big Deal out of dressing her be-penises child, Doris, in pink and pack Doris off to knitting, cookery and ballet lessons (pink tutu) because y’know, gender stereotypes are just sooooooooo harmful?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I think what she is actually saying is that she jokingly tells people they won't know the child's gender till it's 18, but - even though it's a joke - there is a grain of truth to it, because no parent really knows who a child is going to be - in a general sense, not just as regards gender identity.

It's pretentious but I don't think it's as stupid as people are making out.

Yes. She isn't saying they won't know what sex the baby is at all.

Everyone laughs at this. There is a truth to our line, though, one that hints at possibilities that are much more complex than whatever genitalia our child might be born with: the truth that we ultimately have no idea who - rather than what - is growing inside my belly.

This seems so harmful. It's inviting the child to have gender identity issues and potentially causing gender identity issues (I.e. "everyone else has a gender, why won't anyone tell me what mine is?"). Better to call them by the gender associated with their birth sex and deal with it IF any gender identity issues come up than starting the kid out in life with a bunch of questions they'll never be able to understand.

@fairynick

I’d like to suggest a reverse and ask people on this thread what they would say or think if their son turned around age 8, 10, or 13 and said “mum I’m a girl, I’m a trans girl”. I’m pretty sure many of you would say “you don’t know until you’re older, you’re too young enough to know”. So you can know your gender as a child when you’re cis, but not when you’re trans. The transphobia on mumsnet is unreal.

Well I guess none of us know what we would say if our young child told us they felt like they are in the wrong body. What I do know is that I would do anything to help my child to understand it is not unusual to feel this way and that our biological sex does not define us. I am not transphobic and have no issue with anyone doing what they want to their body. I do take issue with allowing children to take strong medication that messes with their natural development and doesn't allow them to go through puberty in the intended manner. And let's not even start on surgical intervention of children. Because our biological self and our emotional self are not always in harmony. Hell there's a shit ton I want to change about my body too. But learning to accept yourself for who you are is key. Changing your appearance and dressing how you want and changing your name and changing your pronouns do not change your biology. So there has to be an acceptance of that IMO.

@fairynick

I’d like to suggest a reverse and ask people on this thread what they would say or think if their son turned around age 8, 10, or 13 and said “mum I’m a girl, I’m a trans girl”. I’m pretty sure many of you would say “you don’t know until you’re older, you’re too young enough to know”. So you can know your gender as a child when you’re cis, but not when you’re trans. The transphobia on mumsnet is unreal.

There is nothing wrong with child being identified as a particular sex - sex is biological. Knowing you are a boy or a girl is no more damaging than knowing whether you have blue eyes or brown. It is a fact.

And yes - if my son said what you suggested at the ages you suggested, I probably would say "You won't know if you are trans until your hormones have settled down - and that won't be for a while yet." Almost everyone finds aspects of their sexuality awkward and confusing, whether they are straight, gay - whatever. I would also point out that they would be able to live how they wished, but that they can't change sex - because that is what they are.

BTW - for future posts: sex IS NOT the same as gender

and there is no such thing as a "cis" person. It is a very offensive term and I am sick of this biologicalsexphobia.

That poor kid at school, I feel so sorry for him or her. They’ll obviously decide much earlier than 18,
I’m not sure why the deluded twits think otherwise!

Emily Ratajowski is a beautiful woman who has somehow managed to convince the world she's a clever one. She's really not.

I don't know what I'd say if my son announced his gender identity was as a cis Male. I suppose I would start by asking him to explain what gender identity actually means, and we would get stuck there for the next 40 years or so.

biologicalsexphobia I'm going to be using this word as much as I can.

"You won't know if you are trans until your hormones have settled down - and that won't be for a while yet."
This made me think that waiting until 18 for a child to tell you their gender is at least better than affirming that they are trans at a young age. The brain still isn't fully developed at 18 but it's better than 13 or younger.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Brilliant post

Why make your kid press the pause button on their own devolopment?

They can identify however they like and then change their mind surely? If you are suppling a safe, open, loving and supportive environment with diverse role models then children can explore without prejudice and expectation to be something they're not.

Imagine the pressure on the poor kid when he gets to 18 and has to come out to his parents as a heterosexual man.

Hey people! Leave the kids alone!

So what if/when kiddo says ‘mama I’m a doggy!’ Or ‘mama, I love ice cream sooooo much I wanna marry it!’.

She is in for a shock I can tell you. I assume it’s her first child and she hasn’t really been around many small people...

HA! These notions will all fly out the window when the infant starts throwing the Grimms rainbow in their faces and demanding sparkly plastic shit or covering their living room floor in vehicle tracks.

I give it 12 months at most.

MmmmmMama!
No darling, it’s ‘birthing parent’ can you say that?
Nrbbbbbb MAMA
No, cherry-jetpack, it’s B-I-R...
M-A
BIRTHINGPARENT!
Mama
Shhhhhhhhh - someone will hear!

I don't normally like hyphenated names FairFriday, but I make the exception for "Cherry-Backpack"

Cherry-jetpack! For goodness sake! backpack is obviously a gendered name, while Cherry- backpack is quite obviously gender free...

Oh I’ve even got myself confused there. Let’s just stick to Belzebub-Tortcarbuncle to be safe.

I know very little about that woman bit every thing I have heard tells me she is an attention seeking idiot.

She's announcing that she is not announcing something? Beer me strength..

Just wait until she’s has the months of morning sickness, pains, waddling and then childbirth, sleep depravation, sore boobs, sore nethers, agent nagging her to get to the gym and get back to a size 4 ASAP for a Hello photo shoot, etc. Then we will see how much truck she gives the woo woo...

@FairFridaythe13th

Cherry-jetpack! For goodness sake! backpack is obviously a gendered name, while Cherry- backpack is quite obviously gender free...

Back to Harry Enfield's Slobs - "Frogmella's a girl's name"

"we won't know the gender until they tell us when they're 18"... She actually said that. I know 2020 is the year of stupid but this has dropped it to another level. Too many people are walking parodies.

I await that poor kid finding a copy of this interview - or more likely, their classmates finding it.

Aren’t they going to know the gender when they change the baby’s nappies.
If baby is a girl surely they’ll have to have the period talk won’t they. Am I missing something.

gender isn’t sex. I don’t think you can tell by looking. I think.