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We won't know our child's gender until they're 18

107 replies

shouldhavecalleditoatabix · 27/10/2020 20:14

Is it just me or has the world gone crazy? Why is it such a problem to accept biological gender these days? Sure we need to address so many things in society including misogyny, hate, homophobia but why does that start with denying gender? We are born different. Each and every one of us. But we do have genetically defined sex. Nothing anyone does or says can change that. It is the fundamental basics of continuing to reproduce. Surely we should be addressing the acceptance of individuality and embracing the fact that anyone can look and act however they choose.  Emily Ratajkowski announces pregnancy - and says she won't reveal baby's gender news.sky.com/story/emily-ratajkowski-announces-pregnancy-and-says-she-wont-reveal-babys-gender-12115759

OP posts:
wellbehavedwomen · 27/10/2020 21:22

But writing about potentially having a son, she said: "I've known far too many white men who move through the world unaware of their privilege, and I've been traumatised by many of my experiences with them.

"And boys too; it's shocking to realise how early young boys gain a sense of entitlement - to girls' bodies and to the world in general. I'm not scared of raising a 'bad guy', as many of the men I've known who abuse their power do so unintentionally.

"But I'm terrified of inadvertently cultivating the carelessness and the lack of awareness that are so convenient for men. It feels much more daunting to create an understanding of privilege in a child than to teach simple black-and-white morality.

Those two positions (that boys are brought up with an entitlement mentality, due to sex and the status of that sex, and that women are at risk from that entitlement and social conditioning, on the one hand, and that gender is innate/nobody can know theirs until adulthood/transwomen are the most vulnerable and abused and marginalised group and need to be allowed all access to all areas of women's provision the very second they assert that their gender is that of a woman and their male bodies an irrelevance, on the other) are diametrically opposed.

This is what happens when people uncritically swallow a set of faith beliefs, and don't actually think about them properly.

Butterer · 27/10/2020 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBloopsMum · 27/10/2020 21:25

@ThistleWitch

who?
Pretty woman who is allergic to clothes.
wellbehavedwomen · 27/10/2020 21:30

@Spiderbaby8

It's a good thing to reject the whole gendered toys thing, and the different attitudes we have towards boys/girls, but this just seems stupid. You can't break the bad parts of our gendered society by just pretending it doesn't exist.
Exactly.

If only it were that easy. But Tinkerbell doesn't exist, no matter how hard someone believes in fairies. You can't just pretend problems away, and voila.

formerbabe · 27/10/2020 21:32

I recently filled out an nhs form for one of my dc and it asked for my dcs gender. I genuinely struggle to understand what the word gender means? I'm convinced one of the reasons it has been so embraced is because people are so prudish about saying the word sex!

SchadenfreudePersonified · 27/10/2020 21:34

@zigaziga

We should just do away with gender. There is no gender. Just biological sex.
Exactly!

N-one is born "in the wrong body". We might wish we had a different body, a prettier body, a more athletic body - even a body of the other sex - but it isn't the "wrong" body.

By all means, be straight, gay or bi - that's the way you are made. And if you want to ignore gender stereotypes by dressing/calling yourself by a name associated with the other sex, then please do - but no-one can change sex.

And that is a simple biological fact.

If children were just accepted as they are, and not pressured by social media/ parents/ peers and made to feel that they aren't "good enough", they they would be able to grow up, go through the horror that is puberty as we all must (and it's awful for all of us - it doesn't mean we are "really" the opposite sex because it makes us feel cr*p) then they could develop the way nature intended them - whatever that may be.

Callipygion · 27/10/2020 21:36

Bollocks

Well if the child has those I would think they will work out exactly which sex they are themselves well before they are 18.

DumDaDumDum · 27/10/2020 21:37

Equally as bad today... Sam Smith being called ‘them’ and talking about having babies and the child calling them ‘mummy’

My mind is completely blown away.

TheSpottedZebra · 27/10/2020 21:43

I dont think that Emily's quote says anything about trans, does it?

I also dont think that 'getting her baps out' means that she doesn't get to have a say, or that she has nothing of note to say.

I read that quote as her saying that her child will be who it will be, and that they'll try to bring up a moral child, aware of its inherent privilege. The gender thing was surely a joke.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 27/10/2020 21:47

My eldest child (female) is nine now. When she was a baby, gender neutral parenting was popular. It was about dressing in bright colours, Let Toys be Toys etc. Teaching our children that their sex shouldn't limit their life choices.

When did it morph into denying biology and stereotypes being the governing factor?

My eldest DD couldn't care less about stereotypes. She does like stuff that's considered feminine.
Her sister routinely tells people that stereotypes are bollocks (more politely) that girls can like dinosaurs like Mary Anning... And wears dresses and skirts the majority of the time.

Result... Children understand their own biology. And know it doesn't govern their likes and dislikes and their future life options. (Too young to be disillusioned our sex discrimination yet!)

JKRowlingforever · 27/10/2020 21:49

Why keep secrets? Why not help your child deal with reality? Life is hard enough

TheSpottedZebra · 27/10/2020 21:51

Did you read the link, JKRowling? That really isn't what she said.

Namechangedforthisoct2 · 27/10/2020 21:53

When I read it I did that little bit of sick in my mouth due to the ridiculousness of her statement, FFS attention seeking much!

Kb12 · 27/10/2020 21:55

Sounds like she was making a joke

Hardbackwriter · 27/10/2020 21:58

Everyone laughs at this. There is a truth to our line, though, one that hints at possibilities that are much more complex than whatever genitalia our child might be born with: the truth that we ultimately have no idea who - rather than what - is growing inside my belly.

"Who will this person be? What kind of person will we become parents to? How will they change our lives and who we are? This is a wondrous and terrifying concept, one that renders us both helpless and humbled."
(She) wrote about Bear-McClard's thoughts on having a girl.
"I do worry a girl will have a lot to live up to as your daughter," he said.

Bless. You can tell it's their first, can't you?

SunshineCake · 27/10/2020 21:59

@nancy75

Attention seeking twattery of the highest order
To go with her barely there dress showing off her breast and side Hmm.
Butterer · 27/10/2020 22:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Butterer · 27/10/2020 22:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HellooJackie · 27/10/2020 22:06

Eye rolled so hard my eyes nearly got stuck.

AgathaX · 27/10/2020 22:07

FFS. How to screw up the child's childhood. In the name of woke bollocks.

Lockdowner13 · 27/10/2020 22:09

I’m with you op. This is insanity.

You raise an interesting point.

I am born female. I fancy males. I wanted to have children with a male.

That then leads to... what kind of male do I find attractive. I am more attracted to “masculine” men.i don’t believe that is because that is what society told me to do. I believe it’s mostly a biological thing. I like stubble and someone who is larger than me. We have certain smells we are attracted to!

And more to the point, I know that in order to attract a man there are certain things I need to do. I wouldn’t wear mens baggy jeans and a blokes sweater if I was wanting to attract a man! I believe lots of these attractions and desires are biological and evolutionary.

So in that sense I think it’s extremely hard to separate sex and gender. I appreciate they are different and I like the idea of moving away from certain gender specific crap that was a part of our history (men can’t be nurses, women can’t be mechanics etc) I think some things are harder to move away from. Yes... my husband could be less stocky, shave all his body hair, and wear a dress... but would I fancy him the same amount...? no, no I wouldn’t.

Russellbrandshair · 27/10/2020 22:11

Somewhat ironic considering her vile husband was called out on social media for using the N word multiple times in the not so recent past. But sure- not announcing your kids gender is FAR more important and progressive isn’t it? 🤮

KylieKangaroo · 27/10/2020 22:16

She should hang out with Paloma Faith Smile
Until men can have babies I will always say the need to know your gender is pretty important

Kingsley08 · 27/10/2020 22:17

Ah, first time parents. Gotta love em!
-no dummies
-100% breast milk
-organic, homemade food

  • no tv or tablets
  • cosleeping or independently in cots
  • 30mins of classical music and/or baby brain games a day (preferably both)
  • gender neutral toys and games (for them to naturally express themselves)

A few months in -

  • bottle fed
-dummies (just bloody shut up)
  • in the night garden
  • food in jars
  • anything to get them to sleep
  • daddy doesn’t want Tommy playing with dolls so every time he picks up Barbie you snatch it away and give him Lightening McQueen - you actually don’t care what gender he identifies as because you want an easy life and to sleep.

Come back in a few months time Emily - will it be your body or your baby?

UniversalAunt · 27/10/2020 22:17

‘ I used to believe sex and gender were the same thing. It's only as times have changed that we are now expected to separate the concepts’.

Nope. Sex is a biological fact - always been so, otherwise how else did we all get here. Gender is a concept as such. Conflation & confusion of these matters is recent thing.

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