Is my 3 year old THAT unusual?

[tomandmigg]

My daughter is 3y9m. Most of the time she is delightful and helpful. She has her moments though. She is very strong willed, and this can mean tantrums. They are getting fewer and lasting less time. If she's hungry or tired it can be harder to wrangle her moods. I wouldn't go as far as to call her "spirited" but I'll own that she can be a bit of a bugger sometimes.

She also has some sort of rare medical thing that the neurologists are looking into. She gets semi-involuntary shudders when excited or uncertain but she's not that bothered about them. One of her tics is running laps up and down unless redirected, and this has given her a bit of a wild reputation.

Daycare want to have a meeting as soon as we get a diagnosis for the tics. She went in for tests a month or so ago and we told them that we wouldn't have the diagnosis telephone appt until late October but that doesn't stop them from asking every time they see me (my husband apparently wouldn't know that information, so he doesn't get asked). All we know is it is NOT epilepsy.

The keyworker also tells me something negative every time she sees me. So, either my kid is an absolute nightmare or this woman isn't very good at serving shit sandwiches. The keyworker has asked for a meeting to discuss my daughter's diagnosis and also wants to talk about her behaviour.

I mean, is it THAT unusual for a 3 year old to lie on the ground and shout I AM NOT GOING!!!! from time to time? I get that it's annoying and I get that it makes everyone's life harder but isn't it part of the territory with early years? It doesn't help that I'm not certain if my kid does this almost everyday at daycare or if the keyworker is saving the moans for me because it's not my husband's job to hear them?

I guess I'm asking, should I gird my loins in case daycare have a suspicion that she has ADHD or ASD etc, or is this reasonably normal for neurotypical pre-schoolers?

Toad: that's the name of the symptom though, right? Not the cause? The neurologist said "we think it's stereotypies" and I said yes, of course, sounds right to me and then she added "which is a KIND of paroxysmal dyskinesias" and I just thought huh, ok!
She kept saying she was very curious as to what the cause was, as my daughter is very unusual in that she started getting them in babyhood. The next step is an MRI.

I can't imagine daycare are going to be satisfied with this. "It's super rare, she's not seriously ill, all the names of the condition are just descriptions of her symptoms in Latin. There's nothing we can do about it." Oh well, sod 'em.

Not read the full thread - sorry - don’t know if myclonic seizures or myopathic seizures have been mentioned.

@tomandmigg

Toad: that's the name of the symptom though, right? Not the cause? The neurologist said "we think it's stereotypies" and I said yes, of course, sounds right to me and then she added "which is a KIND of paroxysmal dyskinesias" and I just thought huh, ok! She kept saying she was very curious as to what the cause was, as my daughter is very unusual in that she started getting them in babyhood. The next step is an MRI.

I can't imagine daycare are going to be satisfied with this. "It's super rare, she's not seriously ill, all the names of the condition are just descriptions of her symptoms in Latin. There's nothing we can do about it." Oh well, sod 'em.

I honestly don't know to be honest, nobody will take me seriously as "it's not affecting him" HA! (I have videos of him doing the same movements from 6m old. I was told it was still "startle reflex" then, when it clearly wasn't) Now going to do some research into paroxysmal dyskinesias (which is a new one on me! So thank you! )

Hi OP.

I don't know much about the asd or neurological aspects of what is going on, but just wanted to send across a hug.

I am also in Denmark and I too have found that the nursery/daycare system here is not the utopia everyone makes it out to be.

Are you danish or British? I'm just wondering whether there is also a language barrier factor which could be making things more stressful for your child? My son is the same age and he is certainly struggling with the language aspect.

Cloud: definitely not epilepsy. The neurologist pronounced herself 200% confident it is not epilepsy. It looks just like it, though. One main difference is that she can walk down stairs during an episode, where in a seizure, she'd wipe out.

Toad: oh man, that's the opposite of the conversations I've had with my kid's doctor. "It's not bothering her, I'm not worried" "yes but I'm CURIOUS please let me book an MRI" Good luck

Chilli: yeah, she's way stronger in English than Danish and I think this sends her into a tizz when she can't express herself. Her keyworker is the sprogpedagog but I don't rate her as she's said things which I know are not true, like bilingual children develop language slower. It's a constant battle.

Her børnehave is closed this week because of a corona outbreak so she's home with me. No meltdowns so far. I wish I could pull her out but I'm the main earner.

I would definitely get a review from a speech therapist - my dd was struggling to express herself and helping her with this reduced upset as well

Have PM’d you x

OP On the socks, my dd1 had endless sock trouble and still does at 12yo when she’s worried. The seamless ones can help, also sandals (sport style closed toe) with no socks from spring to autumn, or thick welly socks and wellies in bad weather. She’s old enough now to discuss what’s bothering her and appreciate that the socks are the symptom not the cause, plus she now goes to a non uniform school so gets a lot more choice on footwear, which also helps. But I remember spending half an hour trying to get the socks right at 3yo, and in the end just giving up and taking her to nursery without socks.

I really think you should explore other options r.e. bornhave. Despite what everyone here says they do vary greatly in terms of quality of care. My son also had a problem with a kindergarten teacher who took a dislike to him. He is already quite shy/timid and she would shout at him for speaking english. He became so quiet and withdrawn. We switched him to a different institution and their attitude and ethos was completely different. Have you tried looking at a private institution? They cost about the same as the state sponsored ones and seem to have smaller group sizes and more child focused ethos.

Oh dear. I think the childcare is the main problem and the keyworker in particularly. If I were you I'd request an urgent meeting with the childcare manager and discuss your concerns about the key worker's methods and attitude towards your child. Give the examples you've shared on this thread. Personally i would be requesting a different keyworker and insist on a discussion between the manager, yourself and the new keyworker to agree on an approach for behaviour management which will be applied consistently by all the staff in the childcare setting.

The diagnosis is a bit of a red herring IMO, the symptoms and behaviour can still be managed better while you're waiting for it. The strategy could then be tweaked if necessary after you've had the diagnosis.

If the manager is not helpful then I would change childcare setting as a matter of urgency, moving house if necessary.

You say you're the main earner; could your husband take time out of work and do the childcare if necessary?

Digeridont: I really look forward to the day where my child can tell me exactly what is wrong. She's getting better but sometimes it is so garbled.
Chilli: aww your poor kid!
Namechange: Those are good tips if I need to escalate up to the boss. Thanks! Nah, he's gone back to school so he'd lose his place on his course. He'd also NEVER go for that. It's hard enough to get him to take a day off when she's sick.

I think you do need to escalate, I think the way that keyworker is treating your child is unacceptable

namechange: I'll wait for the dust to settle after this corona outbreak and regroup. I think you are right