Not another trans thread, but a question to employers/managers

[CatsArePeopleToo]

If somebody reported that your employee is a TERF, would you fire her?
Asking this, because doxxing and harassment of women is obviously a thing.

[quote AllTheGuac]@Ohalrightthen you’re wasting your time with these posters. They’re determined to reframe this discrimination as politeness. As someone who’s not white, their arguments are all too familiar to me. They’re trying to get out of assigning guilt.[/quote]
Well well well said

@CatsArePeopleToo

If somebody reported that your employee is a TERF, would you fire her? Asking this, because doxxing and harassment of women is obviously a thing.

Fire someone because someone else had called them an unpleasant name? No, of course not.

If someone reported in a factual manner that a person had behaved in an inappropriate and/or discriminatory way, I would investigate the circumstances and the behaviour, and deal with the allegations in line with the organisation's policies.

If I had a job where a colleague consistently called me Mrs Husbandsname "the lady scientist" rather than Dr Wolverine, while always referring to my make peers as Dr Surname, I would expect action to be taken against that colleague, regardless of how politely he expressed his sexism, how accurate it was that I was the wife of Mr Husbandsname and a lady scientist, how confusing it was that I hadn't taken my husband's name on marriage or how genuine were his beliefs that women's minds are suited to domesticity rather than research.

Male peers, not make ones.

You sound like you have been posting Transphobic stuff online? And are scared😂

Depends on who is reading. I am openly gender critical, and I like/share stuff, I argue, I joke, I shitpost. And I am not stupid. My social media is not in my own name, and can't be linked to my workplace. Of course, if somebody takes a deeper dig, could probably easily out me. I am not scared with my current employer, but I'm curious how others would respond to doxxing.

@VirginiaWolverine

If I had a job where a colleague consistently called me Mrs Husbandsname "the lady scientist" rather than Dr Wolverine, while always referring to my make peers as Dr Surname, I would expect action to be taken against that colleague, regardless of how politely he expressed his sexism, how accurate it was that I was the wife of Mr Husbandsname and a lady scientist, how confusing it was that I hadn't taken my husband's name on marriage or how genuine were his beliefs that women's minds are suited to domesticity rather than research.

What, even if he was being polite and pleasant while he did it!? You unreasonable harpy!

Just as different religious beliefs are not an excuse for homophobia, being gender critical does not mean you can treat trans people with contempt and expect to get away with it.

If you believe using preferred pronouns is compelled speech, and would be unable to treat a trans colleague with respect, then you should not work for companies who's code of conduct require you to refrain from discrimination based on gender identity.

Well, OP, it looks like certain posters support compelled speech and if you don’t agree to lie about a person’s physical sex, then they’ll have you sacked. I wouldn’t have an issue using someone’s new name, but I definitely wouldn’t use the pronouns that are meant for those of the opposite sex (I’m using sex rather than ‘gender’ because they are different, according to the twitterati). As someone with autism that has suffered physical and sexual abuse directly because of my sex, then being forced to lie about it, to protect my abusers, I would find being ordered to lie about someone’s sexed body, extremely distressing, but of course, my feelings don’t count. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Therefore, everyone in my workplace would just be called them/they.

@DeliciouslyFemale

Well, OP, it looks like certain posters support compelled speech and if you don’t agree to lie about a person’s physical sex, then they’ll have you sacked. I wouldn’t have an issue using someone’s new name, but I definitely wouldn’t use the pronouns that are meant for those of the opposite sex (I’m using sex rather than ‘gender’ because they are different, according to the twitterati). As someone with autism that has suffered physical and sexual abuse directly because of my sex, then being forced to lie about it, to protect my abusers, I would find being ordered to lie about someone’s sexed body, extremely distressing, but of course, my feelings don’t count. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Therefore, everyone in my workplace would just be called them/they.

As i said, if you feel preferred pronouns are compelled speech, then by all means don't use them. Just expect that, if you signed a contract with your company that requires you to not discriminate based on gender identity, you're likely to jeopardise your job in doing so. You have freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences of speech.

@CatsArePeopleToo

If somebody reported that your employee is a TERF, would you fire her? Asking this, because doxxing and harassment of women is obviously a thing.

Thankfully I haven’t managed for ages.

But let me think - if an employee came to me to ‘report’ terfdom I would take a very hard look at the employee, their attitudes and their actions. The reportee that is. Because they obviously only told me to get the other staff member into trouble. Of course I’d investigate the other to see if their were harassing anyone or trying to upset anyone but mostly I’d look at the person who came to me.

Why are you all ganging up on @Ohalrightthen, its making me very uncomfortable watching this.

Would you do the sane to an employee who came to report racism or homophobia? Or fraud?

@Bairnsmum05

Why are you all ganging up on *@Ohalrightthen*, its making me very uncomfortable watching this.

Oh I wouldn’t worry, Ohalrightthen is more than capable of handling it. It’s the staff that work in Ohalrightthen’s workplace and won’t fall into the belief that TWAW/TMAM, who I feel sorry for.

@Bairnsmum05

Why are you all ganging up on *@Ohalrightthen*, its making me very uncomfortable watching this.

Because some people genuinely believe that other people, if they fall into certain categories, do not deserve to be treated with the same respect as others. It is abhorrent, and miserable, and I like you find it very uncomfortable. It's a small comfort that history tells me just as the racists and the religious fanatics have been (eventually) (at least to some extent) condemned for their persecution, the same will hopefully be true of those who deny trans people their right to live with dignity and peace.

*persecution of those they believe to be unworthy of even basic respect

I'm another one shocked that a man was sacked for not lying about some ones sex. That's mad! I wouldn't repeat a prayer in the work place as I'm not religious. Using the wrong sexed pronouns for someone would feel like reciting the prayer of a religion I don't adhere to. I would just use the person's chosen name, but by the sound of it that wouldn't cut it.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

I'm another one shocked that a man was sacked for not lying about some ones sex. That's mad! I wouldn't repeat a prayer in the work place as I'm not religious. Using the wrong sexed pronouns for someone would feel like reciting the prayer of a religion I don't adhere to. I would just use the person's chosen name, but by the sound of it that wouldn't cut it.

You seem to have missed the bit where the man in question refused to use the person's chosen name and instead referred to them by their job title, despite not doing that for anyone else.

Deliberately avoiding the use of someone's name, and singling them out in front of other colleagues is a vicous and hideously rude behaviour. Absolutely unacceptable and I'm glad the man was let go. It reminds me of my bullies in secondary school talking about me with a pointed 'SHE' in front of others and pretending as though I wasn't there. Made me feel like shit, as I'm sure the trans person did.

Differing viewpoints on gender are not an excuse to bully others. Have some respect.

The irony of you taking about religious fanatics, while forcing compelled speech on your staff! No one is denying trans people their right to live with dignity and peace. What a load of hyperbole. You’re demanding that people deny that sex differences exist and I daresay ignoring the rights of your staff to use single sex toilets/changing rooms , free from those of the other sex. Whose dignity and peace is being trampled over here?

But what if the person who was 'misgendering' couldn't bring themselves to lie?
Why should people be forced to publicly pretend to believe something that blatantly isn't true? I think they using 'they/them' pronouns is an excellent compromise when you don't wish to miss sex someone.

So supportive of those who identify as trans, while supporting the firing of anyone autistic who cannot bring themselves to completely go against their own reality. Nice to see which vulnerable people in society is permitted to be abused. Disablist attitudes are still alive and well.

If that's all there was to it he could take you to a tribunal and win. Unless he had verbal and written warnings which he didn't contest.

[quote Ohalrightthen]**@Sexnotgender* @everyplanethasayorkshire* off the top of my head, in our employee handbook we are warned that we will be terminated for "discrimination (including discriminatory language) against any individual on the basis of religion, race, disability, gender indentity or sexuality" so that, in a nutshell. A man was let go from our company last year for repeatedly misgendering one of our colleagues. We've got a zero tolerance policy for bigotry, it's one of the reasons I'm so proud to work where i do.[/quote]
Gender identity is not a protected characteristic.

Gender reassignment is. And that’s a long legal process to be gone through. Not just self IDing as someone else.

So I doubt very much that gender identity is in your handbook.

I think i also left out nationality, and potentially parental status?? I have a teething, coldy baby and am profoundly sleep deprived.

Neither of those are in the Equalities Act 2010.

And I suspect not your handbook either.

I think i also left out nationality, and potentially parental status?

Neither of those are in the Equalities Act 2010.

And I suspect not your handbook either.

Yeah, funny that. Able to pontificate on the rights of the female bodied person who identifies as trans and that person’s rights. Also able to get someone sacked, yet has absolutely no idea what the protected characteristics are.

Whilst it's fine to have different opinions and beliefs, there is no need for the nastiness and accusatory statements thrown about here. What happened to everyone posting about mental health issues? Supporting others? Being kind?