Would you refer to this person as attractive or unattractive

[user43]

If you know someone who is really beautiful when they have made an effort with their appearance, when their hair is done, bit of makeup, dressed well etc. But looks really really bad when they haven't made an effort- no makeup, scruffy hair and clothes etc

When you thought about them/ if you talked about them, would you describe them as attractive or not?

What I mean is, what version of them do you think of.

I dont think many women are very attractive without makeup tbh.

I wouldn't tend to describe someone as unattractive as that's quite mean, but I do think there's some people who spend a lot of time and money on looks to the point where their 'look' is either not very natural or is quite a lot of work to fake a natural look.

Once I stopped comparing my genuinely natural look with the so called natural look of colleagues who get Botox, fillers and do a full face of make up / use endless products to perfectly style their 'bed head' or messy bun, it became much easier to stop giving a fuck and stop feeling down about myself.

Sure they look good every day, but then they probably should for the amount of time and money they invest in achieving a fake natural look. All power to them, but it's not real.

You could be describing me. I look great when I'm "done up" but pig ugly with a face full of slap.

I do think its interesting that even this thread has raised completely different versions of what attractive is. E.g. some posters have said that they think makeup is less attractive than natural, others have said that thye don't think most women look attractive without makeup. You only need to have a look at some of the style and beauty threads about what makes someone look polished etc to see people have a widely different idea.
And yes, I know there are theories people like to bring out about the golden ratio/facial symmetry. But there is a LOT flawed about the golden ratio arguement (I could list all the ways but its boring) and as far as symmetry goes - Audrey Hepburn had a very unsymetrical face. If you compare her to someone like Amber Heard whose face is both symmetrical and almost "perfect" according to aforementioned golden symmetry bullshit then yes Amber Heard (personality aside) is atractive, much more attractive than me, but she's no-where near as iconic as Hepburn, and most people would consider Hepburn more attractive.

@Franticbutterfly

You could be describing me. I look great when I'm "done up" but pig ugly with a face full of slap.

Without I mean.

I think Ronald Dahl said it best...

@yetanothernamitynamechange

I do think its interesting that even this thread has raised completely different versions of what attractive is. E.g. some posters have said that they think makeup is less attractive than natural, others have said that thye don't think most women look attractive without makeup. You only need to have a look at some of the style and beauty threads about what makes someone look polished etc to see people have a widely different idea. And yes, I know there are theories people like to bring out about the golden ratio/facial symmetry. But there is a LOT flawed about the golden ratio arguement (I could list all the ways but its boring) and as far as symmetry goes - Audrey Hepburn had a very unsymetrical face. If you compare her to someone like Amber Heard whose face is both symmetrical and almost "perfect" according to aforementioned golden symmetry bullshit then yes Amber Heard (personality aside) is atractive, much more attractive than me, but she's no-where near as iconic as Hepburn, and most people would consider Hepburn more attractive.

I don’t think either is more or less attractive. Audrey Hepburn was photogenic with amazing stage presence. She had a cheeky, playful character and knew how to play to the camera. I can imagine she could hold a room.

As for your friend op, I really would try to describe your friend without talking about her attractiveness. It makes you sound shallow and buys into the patriarchy. Most people are average looking. Very few at the extreme end.

I think the general answer is how ever you see them most is how you think of them

So you mean that when you are meeting someone, the first thing that pops into your mind is whether they are attractive or not?
And then that;s how you will always see them. Jane in the playground that is unattractive

Wow.
Does the fact someone, man or woman for that matter, is attractive the most important thing ever?
Does it also imply that women are supposed to ALWAYS look attractive, aka done up, so that no one, god forbid, thinks badly of them (because thats what calling someone unattractive does).

I'm hoping we haven't crossed path @user43

@Goatinthegarden

I think Ronald Dahl said it best...

Love that!!

I used to work with a woman who never wore makeup and was just a normal looking lady , but when photographed (with no makeup) she is absolutely stunning. I think of her as being beautiful, mainly because she one of the sweetest people I know.

At the risk of sounding a bit twee, I don’t think anyone is ugly. Some people have more characterful faces, but I think as long is a person is clean and neat their looks really don’t matter to me.

As for what is most attractive, that is very subjective to your personal tastes.

My last two boyfriends were not attractive, looks-wise. However the chemistry we had meant i was attracted to them and still do think of them as attractive. But unless all I had to go on somebody was their looks it would be so far down the way of things that I think of them as. I don't register any of my friends or family as attractive or unattractive, for example, because their looks just really are so far down my list of things that I think of them as. Sure I could tell you if they were conventionally attractive or unattractive if I thought about it, but... meh.

I would say the most authentic version of this person (it’s you, isn’t it) is the one without make up. And as you put it, ill looking and unattractive. The addition of make up is an illusion. Perhaps you are seeing yourself in an unnecessarily negative light? I bet you don’t look that bad.

Everyone getting all irritated and angry at me is obviously ugly. (Joking)

Tbh most really good looking people can also look absolutely awful on a bad day, look at bad photos of celebs etc.

You mean look at the photos of female celebs. Almost always it’s when they are simply without makeup, and not in designer gear. Most of the time they look better than me on my best day, but we’re invited to judge them anyway. You rarely see a photo of a male celeb having a bad day. Why? Because we don’t judge men as having a bad day just because they have a bare face.

Everyone getting all irritated and angry at me is obviously ugly. (Joking)

What a pointless post.

I think you do sometimes see male celebs on "bad days" it's certainly been done to Leonardo diCaprio. Not as many as the female celebs but that's a press/society issue imo rather than what OP is getting at.

@Notverybright

I don’t think that anyone is that good at makeup.

I disagree with this. I remember me and my cousin when we were about 18 having a conversation about make up we didn’t have all the urban decay and Fenty back then. I said make transforms people and now at 29 I think that even more so.

The way these young girls do their make up is amazing they do look a lot different though without it. Probably because it’s all high end make up..nowadays.

@MrsVeryTired that's actually a great example. It wasn't about makeup or talking about people behind their backs. So if you see him on his worst day and on his best day, how do you think of him in general? That's my question.

My gran says there are no ugly people, only poor people

I dont think many women are very attractive without makeup tbh

Again that is down to the eye of the beholder. The fact that I don't wear makeup made me more attractive to DH.

If you know someone who is really beautiful when they have made an effort with their appearance, when their hair is done, bit of makeup, dressed well etc. But looks really really bad when they haven't made an effort- no makeup, scruffy hair and clothes etc

I don't really recognise that as a possibility. Grooming does not make people beautiful. Sometimes it enhances their looks. Often it does the opposite tbh! Someone who has good bone structure, a pretty face and a nice figure is always going to be more physically good-looking/attractive than someone who doesn't, even if they're wearing slobby clothes and have unwashed hair etc.

a press/society issue imo rather than what OP is getting at.

It is exactly what OP is getting at. Her post reference make up i.e she was talking about women, and noted the unattractive option was without make-up.

If OP wasn’t getting at the societal norms we expect of women, she wouldn’t have mentioned make up.

I think you do sometimes see male celebs on "bad days" it's certainly been done to Leonardo diCaprio.

Of course you do see it done to men (hence my “almost always” distinction) But I see your Leonardo DiCaprio and raise you every female actor.

Unattractive