Jehovah’s Witnesses

[Mixington]

Just found out that the tenants in one of our properties are JWs. They are super nice, lovely family and have always been a pleasure to deal with. We have met some two sets of friends of theirs too, in passing, who also seemed really lovely too. All JW too it turns out, active members going to meetings serveral times a week etc. All run cleaning or window cleaning businesses which I was intrigued to find out is very common for JW.

A girl at school was also JW, she was really funny, cool, nice, bright, but somewhat removed from everyone else - ie didn’t socialize with us outside of school, was a bit of a floater with friend groups, didn’t join in with the usual Christmas and birthday stuff. I recall various brief teenage style basic conversations about it and we all just kind of shrugged and accepted it... Then I had read up on JW as an adult ago so looking back it all made sense.

This new info of our tenants being JW has made me curious again about it.

Now, overall I take the approach of live and let live. I have zero religion in my life but have often thought the community side of it must be great and that in times of need I can see any religion could offer comfort.

That being said, from what I’ve read about JW, it feels to be more of a sect or cult, with pretty strong rules and beliefs, with the potential for significant emotional and psychological repercussions. It just seems so severe and I’m struggling with reconciling these lovely people with such an extreme organization.

Clearly it’s not mutually exclusive to be a nice person and a JW. That is not my point. But I can’t get my head around these people believing in Armageddon and The Truth and “shunning bad associations” etc etc. They seem so normal yet I can only assume they are totally indoctrinated given they are still clearly active JWs.

I know that in most day to day interactions people don’t preach their beliefs, it just doesn’t come up in conversation.. but with something like JW that is seemingly quite strict, I am fascinated to think that these people who are really cool/normal/nice have this massive thing going on in their life and probably hold quite strong views which Judy colour the way they look at the world.

I found the past AMA in here and other articles on JW so interesting, and distressing in places (lack of blood transfusions, child abuse, domestic violence) though obviously horrid stuff can take place anywhere religion or not.

So I don’t know why I’m posting really. I guess I’m totally intrigued by this way of life and trying to understand how it fits in with or views the rest of society? Do they think I’m awful because I don’t live in The Truth? Are there different shades of joe much you can join in or follow as a JW? Or is it all or nothing? Do these people I know want to convert me? Do they talk about Armageddon with their kids like it’s a normal piece of life? So fascinating......

No matter what she believed, there's no way that woman isn't looking down on us with her wings and halo now!

LOL that would be interesting as it's not something JW's believe.

JW's I have met are usually really nice people but the organisation and their various policies - not so much.

If your 8 year old daughter tells you she has been touched inappropriately then she will be questioned by 2 'elders' who are probably window cleaners with no further education (nothing wrong with that per se, but not qualified to question an abused child) and totally unaware of the damage they are causing.

If there is no second witness it will be 'left to Jehovah' and your dd will be expected to attend Kingdom Hall with the person she has accused.

If she can't cope with that then she she could be disfellowshipped.

Have to say I really dislike them as a group, because of persistent calling at our house when I have repeatedly asked them (politely) not to.

Tell them you are disfellowshipped, they will leave you alone.

I was raised a JW. I’m sure I posted a few times about it on the AMA so I won’t Labour the point but it’s absolutely a cult. It relies on isolating people and crushing independent thinking. Only their publications are correct and reading anything that contradicts is apostasy. Any organisation that does not stand up to open scrutiny deserves questioning.

In terms of the organisation google their contribution to the historic child sex abuse review, the closure of the Spanish bethel, investment in tobacco companies and the sale of the American real estate. Someone is getting very rich somewhere but the finances are incomprehensible.

As individuals many are lovely and genuinely want to help others and are taken advantage of. Others are like my dad and enjoy the perceived authority they have.

I have no time for the organisation and pity for the many wasted lives it’s caused.

@sashh

No matter what she believed, there's no way that woman isn't looking down on us with her wings and halo now!

LOL that would be interesting as it's not something JW's believe.

JW's I have met are usually really nice people but the organisation and their various policies - not so much.

If your 8 year old daughter tells you she has been touched inappropriately then she will be questioned by 2 'elders' who are probably window cleaners with no further education (nothing wrong with that per se, but not qualified to question an abused child) and totally unaware of the damage they are causing.

If there is no second witness it will be 'left to Jehovah' and your dd will be expected to attend Kingdom Hall with the person she has accused.

If she can't cope with that then she she could be disfellowshipped.

Have to say I really dislike them as a group, because of persistent calling at our house when I have repeatedly asked them (politely) not to.

Tell them you are disfellowshipped, they will leave you alone.

That's my point. My old gran was a bloody Angel of a woman. She claims she would just die and wait to be reborn in paradise after Armageddon but our family all know that woman was too good and pure to just be dead and gone. If there's a heaven, she's there despite her JW beliefs.

And she'd probably be pissed about it.

@chickenblc

Surely a person would know what's required before taking that step of baptism. That's why you have to be convinced it's the truth before doing so and that's why it should be totally down to the individual they need to make that choice alone. So if you say that this man was shunned perhaps he was baptized? Otherwise if say he was raised with JW parents and he choose to not get baptized and lead whatever life I wouldn't shun if he choose that life style if he didn't choose to get baptized. As long as he didn't hurt anyone with the life style he choose I wouldn't shun (so to speak). I wouldn't agree with it but it be up to him because I would of done my part in teaching him about what God wants from the Bible not what man thinks. I would of taught him all I know the rest is up to him. He would of know the score before baptism. If someone wants to lead that lifestyle it's up to them (free will and all) but that life style it's not Gods standards according to the Bible.

Regarding blood there are many alternatives to blood transfusions, many of them. If you said I can't take ibuprofen but I can take paracetamol it's an alternative right. So why can't we choose an alternative in this day and age we have that choice it's true and as we understand more and more about medical things. You know blood is biological and can carry things even though I know it's screened it's not completely without its risk either. Again though I'm only talking from the medical side of things. From God's point of view it was asked us not to eat blood so we wouldn't transfuse it either (they obviously didn't have transfusions in Bible times but the principle will still stand)
But basically I would explain it from this scripture Acts 15:28–15:29 this was a letter Paul was writing to the first Christians and it says to abstain from blood. So because the first Christians didn't take in blood like from eating it, we wouldn't take in blood whether it is from transfusion or eat something like black pudding.

Again there are articles on our website that explain how we feel about child abuse. We hate it and would encourage anyone if they experience such wickedness to go to the police and report and it's delt with by them. Again more details and articles are on our official website that explain more.

Anyway I respect others disagree, but we do try follow God standards over man's even if it makes us unpopular with the rest of the world, I'm happy to live this life

@JW101 Do you eat meat?

Surely a person would know what's required before taking that step of baptism. That's why you have to be convinced it's the truth before doing so and that's why it should be totally down to the individual they need to make that choice alone. So if you say that this man was shunned perhaps he was baptized? Otherwise if say he was raised with JW parents and he choose to not get baptized and lead whatever life I wouldn't shun if he choose that life style if he didn't choose to get baptized.

If he is from a JW family, he was likely baptised at a young age and didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter. He might not have even known he was gay if he was a child at the time. And the poster said he was shunned for coming out, nothing to do with "lifestyle choice".

So why can't we choose an alternative in this day and age we have that choice it's true and as we understand more and more about medical things.

You can, but sometimes there is no alternative. There are situations where people will die without blood transfusions. Thankfully if parents refuse them for their children the court can overrule, hopefully it's not too late by then.

I was just turned 12 when I was baptised.

Religion is an insult to human dignity.
Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

I had a choice my parents never pressured me. You get baptized when you are ready a young person should never unless they alone are convinced it's right for them. I mean Jesus was in his 30s when he was baptized. I can't answer what goes on in every household but I personally don't know anyone who was pressured into baptism in my experience, what would be the point, in the long run it would never work because it wouldn't be for the right reason and a witness parent should know that. I'm not saying it never happens imperfect people can do things wrong. God will know this.

I have experienced with family, about alternative to blood and I praise the medical staff who do it. Again I won't argue at all, but will explain, it comes down to God's standard from the Bible.

Take it or leave it we all have a choice right. Anyway I'm leaving the thread now as obviously we could go on and on but I've said all I can to the best of my knowledge If you want to know more about us JW.org will tell you the facts about us, if you where to find out about a Hindu, Muslim or Catholic or whatever the best person to ask would be one or find their official page.

@JW101 - You are being disingenuous at best. How on earth can you expect a child to be fully cognizant of all the consequences of their baptismal commitment? I'd go so far as to say that someone raised JW because of the nature of what you are consistently taught about any information not received from the WT org (something you've demonstrated on this very thread) that even an adult who had been raised JW or encountered the religion early in their lives wouldn't be cognizant of all the consequences.

Whilst individual witnesses may be genuinely nice people - I'd suggest it's like any group there are good and bad everywhere - their governing body takes great pleasure in speaking about what will happen to people alive at Armageddon. Oh sure the individual JW may try to say "only Jehovah knows hearts" but that does not take away from the fact that in recent times the GB have published videos where they speak about "human hot dogs" and other such awful sights because of course those people will deserve such treatment and destruction.

The organisation has convinced so very many people to live a life that is devoid of joy. They'll cut off "apostates" generally out of fear of displeasing Jehovah. They believe it's a "loving provision" (i.e. maybe we can guilt the person to give up their homosexuality (!) by not talking to them, even if they're our own children). They believe it's a loving provision to allow their loved ones to die for want of a blood transfusion. Their "anointed" class (144,000 total) will be part of the war destroying everyone else alive at Armageddon. It's taught in graphic detail - and not just to adults but to every man, woman and child.

Every move from the org, and for JWs who are trained in trying to convert people, is met with obfuscation. They simultaneously claim they are "God's only perfect channel" but they're "not infallible".

Every piece of scripture or doctrine - including changes - must be interpreted only with the Watchtower publications. They boldly claim that a man would "leave the organisation in a year if he only read the Bible and didn't read the Watchtower publications too". Their New World Translation appears grandiose and great at first glance, but it's a mirage. The translation committee has been proven to not be scholars. The only person on it with a smattering of Greek language training couldn't translate a document even basically in court. They have shoe-horned the word "Jehovah" into the New Testament where it absolutely does not belong. They have added punctuation where none existed (as in literally did not exist in the original languages). They have manipulated the Bible to read as they want it to read.

Moreover, they subjugate mankind and Jesus Christ. They believe he is the mediator for those in the new covenant only (the anointed 144,000). They believe your death pays for your sins. Their passing of the bread and wine once a year finds only a similarity with the Black Mass. You see the majority of JWs must simply pass it on, they are not allowed to partake. Whichever way you slice it, Jesus direction at the Last Supper is clear (if you believe it of course) that in order to have a part of his sacrifice, one must partake of the communion often together. But you see for JWs they don't even believe the Bible was written for the common man, only for the anointed class. Instead they are thumbing their nose each year at the death of Christ.

They'll deny it, they'll do what JW101 has done and claim that anything not published by their organisation is misinformation or apostate material. They aren't allowed to think because to do that would be questioning the governing body and Jehovah. It doesn't matter how much evidence piles up against them, they believe it is false. They claim that videos are manipulated by apostates with modern video technology - even when the same content is found on jw.org or their real study site wol.

Sure there's a nice and shiny veneer when you first encounter them, they really do genuinely believe that they are trying to get you to paradise earth. But underneath all that, there is something very dark and even evil. It is little wonder they discourage higher education - to the point where someone can have their "privileges" removed due to their child's decision to pursue higher education. Don't believe me? It's right there in the Shepherd the Flock book, right there on wol. Oh but normal JWs aren't meant to read that either, it's for elders eyes only. Except it's in the public domain and certainly last time I checked you just had to click you had permission on their website. No checks involved. It was also published in court in Australia during the ARC - a massive court hearing to do with child abuse. The average JW though will deny that it says it, they'll claim that such documentation was manipulated by Satan and "the apostates".

Sure there are some JWs who bend the rules, who aren't quite so enthralled by their organisation, but that doesn't take away from what the organisation itself preaches. Even their method of teaching and preaching is different to most if not all faiths. Their materials are spoon fed at best. Here's a list of questions with the answers, people prepare an answer which must follow the answer given in that week's text. The entire text is to be studied by everyone around the globe that week. There is no room for questions off the cuff, or material outside that text at all. Everything is micromanaged, everything is stage managed. There is absolutely no room for free thought let alone free will.

@JW101

I had a choice my parents never pressured me. You get baptized when you are ready a young person should never unless they alone are convinced it's right for them. I mean Jesus was in his 30s when he was baptized. I can't answer what goes on in every household but I personally don't know anyone who was pressured into baptism in my experience, what would be the point, in the long run it would never work because it wouldn't be for the right reason and a witness parent should know that. I'm not saying it never happens imperfect people can do things wrong. God will know this.

I have experienced with family, about alternative to blood and I praise the medical staff who do it. Again I won't argue at all, but will explain, it comes down to God's standard from the Bible.

Take it or leave it we all have a choice right. Anyway I'm leaving the thread now as obviously we could go on and on but I've said all I can to the best of my knowledge If you want to know more about us JW.org will tell you the facts about us, if you where to find out about a Hindu, Muslim or Catholic or whatever the best person to ask would be one or find their official page.

If you are a child or teenager being raised in a certain religion the choice to get baptised isn't much of a choice. How many 12-year-olds have the courage to say no to their parents, especially if they think they might be gay? And what about people who discover their sexuality after they've been baptised?

In any case, anyone who disowns or shuns their child for being gay is scum. As is anyone who refuses a necessary medical procedure for their child.

Our family friend was brought up as a JW. She isn't one now.
There are some things that I really don't agree with what they do. Like with a lot of religions. I just definitely don't agree how they can watch someone die in need of a blood transfusion for the sake of religion. I know that sounds silly but it baffles me.
I also don't like the constant hounding at your doors around Christmas. Surely if someone wanted to be a JW then they'd go to their place of worship. You don't need to come to my door especially when Christmas decorations are outside. It's just rude.

Well I didn’t know Window cleaning was a JW thing. I taught some a few years ago and one half of the family were window cleaners.

I’ve always found them fine - some a bit blinkered perhaps. Not quite a cult but stronger medicine than C of E.

As a generalisation less intensive than Mormons.

Of all of these those that go door knocking tend to be the hardliners.

Most try to stay on script and flounder a bit when you try to take them off ie discussing LGBT issues.

For the most part their hearts are in the right place even though I disagree with a deal of what they preach.

On a grass roots level not as insular. In my town both have joined in with communal Chuch foodbanks, helping out with covid issues etc.

Just remembered.....

Mormons are a bit shitty when it comes to their own children coming out as LGBT.

We put up a young man, friend of my son, over one Christmas, when his family didn’t want him darkening their door. He was also excommunicated too.

I worked with a JW. She was in an admin role at the school I taught at. Out of all the staff she was the most lovely woman ever, always helpful and going the extra mile. She used to put smiley post it’s on things. But her son got ill and passed away. I don’t know the details but some of the other admin staff said she’d not allowed him to receive treatment because of her beliefs. I don’t know if it was true or there was a bit of shit stirring going on. She was off work for a few weeks following his loss and was a really different person after, you could see she was heartbroken. It was really sad.

Another ex-JW here! I was brought up as one from birth. It’s absolutely destroyed my family tbh, various other issues to which weren’t helped by extremist religious beliefs. I also hear DV is rife often with elders refusing to intervene, treating it as a family matter. I left the religion at 15, I was kicked out of home a little after my 17th birthday, went to uni and never went back. Same happened to my older brother, although he was actually homeless at 15. Out of 5 of us siblings only one remains a JW. Db24 still lives at home, he’s underemployed, lives a very sheltered life. It’s suits him well as he’s not very driven, he’s happy I guess, that’s the main thing. All his group of friends, most of whom are younger than him by 2-3 years are already married with children.

We obviously are all NC with parents and they have little to do with their 7 grandchildren, two of which they have never met. I agree with the poster who said it very much depends on which congregation you’re in, some are far stricter than others.

Loosing your entire life and family overnight, especially when you’ve spent years being told not to associate with anyone outside the religion, has a profound impact on your sense of self and your ability to trust. It’s a real mindf**ck even all these years later.

Take it or leave it we all have a choice right. Anyway I'm leaving the thread now as obviously we could go on and on but I've said all I can to the best of my knowledge If you want to know more about us JW.org will tell you the facts about us, if you where to find out about a Hindu, Muslim or Catholic or whatever the best person to ask would be one or find their official page.

Why is official JW propaganda more effective than the testimony of people who have been part of the Church and then left? And even the official site says some disgusting things about how gay people are sick, chose to be that way and can and should change. It says that parents should try to stop their child from getting live-saving blood transfusions, and that wives should submit to their husbands.

Window cleaning is definitely a thing. Further and higher education are very much discouraged (especially for girls), so most folk don't have the qualifications for a lot of jobs. And, being a window cleaner or similar, means that you can set your own hours so that you have plenty time for the preaching work, which is clearly the most important work a person can do.

Kurtanscurtains, I can only imagine that the Watchtower Society is loving the present situation. It must be an Apocalyptic religion's wet dream. I expect many, many Witnesses and others see covid as a sure fire sign of the end.

If anyone is interested, look up Ray Franz. He was a member of the Governing body, one of the blessed 144,000 anointed ones until he couldn't stomach the deception and mind control any more. Of course, JWs will now tell you that he is an apostate (just like me, RJ and others). But if The GB have a hotline to God, how could they make a mistake about someone in Brother Franz's position?

Luckily, I didn't losey family when I left. I had converted as a teenager. I was very vulnerable, having been abused for years, bullied at school, raped several times and living miles away from home on my own.
I was lucky in thaty family took me back because I had pretty much cut them off as I had been encouraged to do. Their opposition was just a sign that I was in the "Truth" because Satan was trying to "block my progress"!.

I did lose all my friends, though, and that was very, very hard. My kids lost their friends, too, and that was worse.

@JW101
We are not a cult or sect as we have no human leader.
I am sorry but that is nonsense. The governing body rules the cult absolutely. In recent years they have even said that their pronouncements are to be as trusted as the gospels. Dissent is not tolerated.

My heart sinks when I see the words 'Jehovahs witness' on my new class list.
I'm obviously always incredibly professional but I absolutely hate that I have to make special allowances for what is basically a sinister cult.
Can you imagine the uproar if a Muslim family told me I had to offer alternative activities for their child while we were learning about any other religions or celebrations apart from their own?
They even refuse to partake in anything to do with Remembrance Sunday, even the holocaust is off limits and I'm expected to excuse their child from the class and make alternative arrangements for them.

It's a despicable 'religion'

Had a very bad experience with this organisation and a family member. She suffered from an illness and they got her at a low point (not in a good way / distanced her from family). She is out of it now thank goodness.

Anniversary, that's because all other religions and anything connected with them is basically devil worship. If you are not a JW, you are, in effect, worshipping Satan because he uses other faiths to lure people away from Jehovah.

Remembrance etc aren't allowed because not only is false religion involved but it's also "glorifying" worldly stuff like countries, war and armies. JWs should be "no part of the world" so can't involve themselves in anything remotely connected with governments, cultural stuff or celebrations.

Humbug is bang on. The pronouncements of the GB are to be taken as gospel, quite literally. No dissent is tolerated. Funny how the gospel according to a bunch of old, sex obsessed white men changes regularly but the actual Gospels haven't changed for nearly 2000 years.🙄

@Lessstressedhemum I'm aware of the reasons, I've had it justified to me many times over the years.
I just don't understand why we pander to it? Why I'm not allowed to politely explain that we're an inclusive school and encourage our pupils to have a broad understanding of other religions & cultures.
If they don't like it? Well.....

If a racist parent approached me and asked her child to be excused from learning about other cultures etc I'd flatly refuse!
Thankfully I'm JW free this year!