Uni students... risking the wrath of mn..

[redgin]

Firstly, I have had 2 children go through uni and out the other side and I fully understand the emotional and financial aspects.

But

They leave home, expect to be treated as adults (rightly) and have their first taste of independence. After a summer debating the risks of going to uni this year in the middle of a pandemic why are they surprised they have to isolate in their rented accommodation like anyone else? That they have to follow the rules like the rest of the law abiding?

IMO they chose to go, they couldn't have expected normal, so get on with it.

[quote 500BusStops]@SueEllenMishke agree 100%. This inept, corrupt government have thrown students and universities under the bus - just like they have done with teachers, care home workers and residents, healthcare workers etc. They want us to blame each other - anyone but them. We cannot forget this.[/quote]
Yes, exactly.

All the people who think students should just have deferred - what about the thousands of kids like mine who are applying now for entry October 2021? Deferring thousands now impacts all of the kids who should be going next year, or the year after that.

And it's been said before but in Scotland, given the difference in education systems, some of those kids are still 17 and won't be 18 until February. Less likely, but also possible, is that a child left school after their 5th year and is currently still 16. Those are children, not adults, and the universities are failing in their duty of care.

They’re there to study, so they should be shut inside anyway doing their work. If they want to achieve what they are there to do, they will have to spend long periods isolated reading and writing anyway. If they look at this positively, they could end up with better grades.

Life is about how you treat it, not how it treats you.

I don’t understand the mentality that adults here : “these poor students” and so forth - university isn’t about partying. If you treat it like that you’ll not see your potential.

Well, people (HEPI , Sutton Trust etc) like to bemoan the lot of the commuter student. (they miss out on the 'experience' ) Ignoring the fact that some students aren't there for the 'experience' . I think this is the year when being a commuter student is demonstrably the smarter option

What @SueEllenMishke said

• The issue is also that students are treated as criminals, as if they had already broken the self isolation rules before they have done anything. See the guards at the door before they were even told they should be in self isolation (or they had time to get food which is important for the students as they have just moved in, a very different situation than I’d you self isolate at home and have food in the cupboards).

• The uni have also decided to self isolate whole blocks and not just separate flats. Imagine if you were telling a whole block of flats to self isolate because ONE flat has two cases of Covid? Would people accept that? What about sheltered accommodation? In mean there are people advocating to only put the elderly in lockdown and most people seem to think it’s awful. Why is it not awful for the students?

Basically the issue is that students are treated in a completely different way than any other adults in the society. AND in an unlawful way too (I gather that there are some people looking at the legal side and seeking compensation for the Unis attitude too....).
I’m not surprised that students arent happy to be treated like scum.

@popcornlover

They’re there to study, so they should be shut inside anyway doing their work. If they want to achieve what they are there to do, they will have to spend long periods isolated reading and writing anyway. If they look at this positively, they could end up with better grades.

Life is about how you treat it, not how it treats you.

I don’t understand the mentality that adults here : “these poor students” and so forth - university isn’t about partying. If you treat it like that you’ll not see your potential.

Well they could do that at home, with their families and without spending vast amounts of money on accommodation.

But also - how fucking depressing.

@popcornlover

They’re there to study, so they should be shut inside anyway doing their work. If they want to achieve what they are there to do, they will have to spend long periods isolated reading and writing anyway. If they look at this positively, they could end up with better grades.

Life is about how you treat it, not how it treats you.

I don’t understand the mentality that adults here : “these poor students” and so forth - university isn’t about partying. If you treat it like that you’ll not see your potential.

So you would be happy to stay in self isolation for a whole month with bins all around you because you’re not allowed to take them outside then?

Try that in your own house and then come back to tell us if it’s an ok way to treat you. Or if you have been able to concentrate to work.

@BrazenlyDefying

All the people who think students should just have deferred - what about the thousands of kids like mine who are applying now for entry October 2021? Deferring thousands now impacts all of the kids who should be going next year, or the year after that.

And it's been said before but in Scotland, given the difference in education systems, some of those kids are still 17 and won't be 18 until February. Less likely, but also possible, is that a child left school after their 5th year and is currently still 16. Those are children, not adults, and the universities are failing in their duty of care.

Agree, my youngest is also going next year - we're having to carry on as though everything is normal even though we have no idea where we'll be in a year

It's not about partying. It's about being cooped up with people who are more or less strangers. And the practicalities of getting food etc are presumably more difficult in halls of residence. It's not like in a house share in second year where you're with your friends and you could all chip in for a Tesco online delivery.

@Eng123 if you think it's just fresher week impacted you are extremely naive. And not only are many courses are offering little if any face to face tuition but placements are off too.

I completely agree op. If you mix with lots of people there’s a higher chance you’ll need to self isolate in the midst of a pandemic. The fuss over this is ludicrous.

@Tomatoesneedtoripen what free online courses will train our future doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers, teachers.
What "life experience" do you think sitting at home will give them.
Jeez, I despair.

I don't think any adult would be happy to be trapped in a flatshare with maybe a dozen people who they have only just met.

yes and they're locked into pretty grim, basic places, with people they have just met. I dropped my dd off on Saturday - no adult would live like she has to.

And yet we do worse to people with mental illness and almost nobody bats an eyelid? In fact, they're supposed to be healed by being brutalised and traumatised, which clearly people are capable of understanding is a ridiculous harmful notion.

If it turns out you are capable of empathising with what a mentally destructive scenario this is, why do you not raise your voice against the treatment people living with mental illness are subjected to? It's all of this and worse - just because people fall into one arbitrary category of illness where we've decided to take their freedom and choices away.

Why have I never seen multiple threads on MN filled with people complaining about the conditions people with mental illness are subjected to - the experience of being forcibly detained with strangers in a noisy, mixed sex environment with no privacy, poor food, no access to fresh air, no ability to exercise, not believed if you speak of mistreatment, no right to say no to having male staff hold you down on your bed and forcibly inject you in the buttock, being held face down on the floor by male staff when distressed, forced to shower and use the toilet in front of staff? Oh, right, because they're "other" to you and you don't care.

Self-serving hypocrisy.

Self-serving hypocrisy.

What is self serving hypocrisy?

You're being unfair.

These students are only just starting out as adults. Legally you become an adult overnight when you hit 18 but that doesn't confer the experience and wisdom of adulthood as a magical gift.

Starting out at university is difficult enough without a pandemic going on.

I'd have been devastated if all this had happened when I was 18. Obviously I'm not thrilled about it happening when I'm in my 40s but at least I am at a settled point in my life, have my own house and so on.

I think all the people who think the treatment of students is ok should be locked in a poky flat with a tiny bedroom with 5 complete strangers for at least 2 weeks with the threat of it happening again and again. With how they cope in this time affecting their job prospects for the rest of their lives. They should be charged a fortune for the privilege and then asked how they feel at the end of the fortnight.

Agree for second or third year students it's a different matter. They know their way about, they have chosen their flatmates.

But for freshers, Uni has made that choice. People stuck in halls with up to 11 complete strangers. Being told that you can't leave to go to the launderette so just wash your clothes in the bath. It's like some sort of Big Brother without the cameras. Nobody signed up for that.

@Dinocan

I completely agree op. If you mix with lots of people there’s a higher chance you’ll need to self isolate in the midst of a pandemic. The fuss over this is ludicrous.

Wow. I take it you don't know any 18 year olds?

Do you thinker's right then that students should be treated completely differently from the rest of the population? because that's what's happening in many places.

They are literally being locked into their halls of residence.

Classic case of whataboutery from user19542358662566

for all those on this thread saying ah it's bad if students had deferred or stayed at home and it's bad they have to self-isolate in their halls.....what exactly was the alternative? it's a pandemic, large swathes of the country are going into lockdown, unis literally cannot offer face to face for all students at 2m distancing (so that was never going to happen).....so what do you all propose they should have done?

also let's not forget that the fees unis were most scared of losing were international ones not british ones.most unis assumed that brits would have to come cos there are no alternatives so it's the international students they were most scared of losing

@BrazenlyDefying

All the people who think students should just have deferred - what about the thousands of kids like mine who are applying now for entry October 2021? Deferring thousands now impacts all of the kids who should be going next year, or the year after that.

And it's been said before but in Scotland, given the difference in education systems, some of those kids are still 17 and won't be 18 until February. Less likely, but also possible, is that a child left school after their 5th year and is currently still 16. Those are children, not adults, and the universities are failing in their duty of care.

I think that's a separate issue, tbh.

We all have children affected, in myriad ways.

But objectively this year has been awful. And if mine had been in this batch I would have encouraged them to defer.

You have to deal with what's the next issue and see where we are. It's complicated - but it is denial of the complexity that is making it worse.

government told unis they are a business...so they acted like one I.e. massaged the truth to get their cash. if people want unis to do some public service tell government to end the charade with the feex

There's a startling lack of empathy from some posters.

I don't think you can get away from the fact that this year students were misled. They signed up for blended learning - and mostly they are not getting that. Secondly the way they are being locked in en masse. They did not sign up for that. I await your calm reaction when entire apartment blocks are locked in potentially including endangering life by locking fire doors. How can anyone have so little empathy as to say they should have known? Who should have known? The 17/18 year olds? Or the unis should have known that they would not be providing blended learning? When did they know? Before or after they filled their expensive accomodation? Or the government should have known (did know from the modeling they did?) - but lets blame the 17/18 year olds.

@redgin

My kids aren't first years though, covid wasn't a consideration when they committed their money and one of my DD's has been completely shafted, loosing 5 weeks (1/4 of total teaching time) to strikes last year then 3 weeks to covid no online teaching. The other had online teaching and no staff striked. This year one has no face-face the other has lots going figure (different universities) one definitely deserves a refund, plus they both signed contracts pre covid in January for accommodation