Sister in relationship with paedophile, SS removed son from her care, please help.

[Qwertybertie87]

NC as obviously potentially outing.

My sister and I had a fairly rough upbringing. Our mother was /is an alcoholic, had sporadic relationship with our father.

I am married with a daughter, my sister had a baby boy 11 months ago. Her and baby's father split while she was pregnant though they have had a civil relationship since then and he is a good dad to their little one.

2 weeks ago I had a phone call from sisters exboyfriend. Social services had removed their son from her care and now he has DN in his care. DS had met someone online about 2 months ago. He lives a fair distance away, didn't think too much of it but it turns out that he has previously been in prison for sexually assaulting a young girl and has twice been convicted of possession of child abuse images. For context we are in Scotland and the boyfriend is from England.

Social services told my sister she either ends the relationship or they will take further action. She refused to end the relationship so they got an emergency order to have DN placed with his father. I knew nothing of any of this until DS ex partner contacted me.

Baby and father seem to be fine, I have visited and took some shopping etc. I cannot understand what the hell is wrong with DS. I have obviously went through her like a ton of bricks but she says they convictions were wrong etc etc and that he's changed. She has never shown signs of being this stupid in the past. I am worried sick. She is allowed supervised contact with DN twice a week. Twice she has missed it now, once because she had to take her cat to the vet and once because she was getting a spray tan done.

I am devastated. I am not worried about baby being with his father, I am being supportive and his own parents are supporting him as well and baby seems happy as Larry. But I don't know whether to be more worried or angry when it comes to DS.

I have no idea what will happen moving forward. How can I make her see sense. My head is absolutely fried with all of this.

[Qwertybertie87]

Sorry everyone for taking so long to reply to you all.

It's been so stressful and tiring. Sis has missed 3 more contacts with DN. One of them she tried to bring the boyfriend with her. I've told her that I want nothing to do with her until he is gone. I have to put my nephew first. I've been spending time with nephews dad's parents, they are such lovely people and are at a loss with what to think. Im so glad my nephew has such a nice caring family. He hasn't been sleeping too well apparently, he's probably wondering where his mummy is poor soul. I could wring her neck. I was extremely upset at the beginning of the week, everything just seemed to get on top of me and I wailed for a good couple of hours which actually made me feel better afterwards. The main thing is my nephew is being looked after and loved properly and is safe. She can go and rot with her paedo lover now for all I care.

[BananaPop2020]

Hi OP

Nice to hear back from you, such a shame it isn’t a more positive update. Keeping your nephew’s best interests at heart is the right thing to do - good luck for the future ❤️

[greyblueeyes]

I cannot believe she tried to bring the new sicko bf to contact!! What is wrong with her? My god, OP. I'm so sorry.

I'm so glad SS got your nephew away from her. It's sad but he just wouldn't be safe with his mother. I'm sure you must be heartbroken.

[bethany39]

I'm very glad your DN has such a supportive family around him to make up for his mother's behaviour. His dad and his family sound great as do you OP

[BlackSwan]

Of course you’re distressed about this OP, it would be a deeply distressing situation for anyone with a range of normal human emotions. Your sister is beyond redemption in my mind. It’s sickening to think of a mother who would dump their own baby in favour of a paedophile. Abhorrent that she tried to include the boyfriend in the contact visit - could there be any clearer warning.
Your poor nephew.

[lughnasadh]

Your sister has been traumatised by her childhood, and has numbed herself as a self preservation mechanism.

Even missing contact could be her way of protecting the child without having to take positive action or make proactive decisions, which are beyond her.

She is seeing the child safely separated from the threat of her partner without putting herself in his firing line. She can say 'SS/his father/definitely not me took the child from us/you'.

She simply can not allow herself to feel that hurt and fear. The worst has/is happening, and she is surviving . That's all her trauma will allow her.

The black and white good person/bad person thinking from some posters is extremely dangerous.

Traumatised children don't magically become able to fix themselves at 18.

It's telling that the OP didn't read her sister's extraordinary passivity as a marker of trauma, showing perhaps the effect their upbringing has had on her too.

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

OP you sound like you are a very caring aunt to your nephew. I think all you can do at this point is to carry on supporting your nephew and his dad.

Your sister is an adult and is responsible for her choices. It's extremely sad that she is choosing her partner over her child but theres very little you can do about that at the moment.

[IHateCoronavirus]

Poor baby. Thank goodness he has a good aunt, DF and DGPs who all love him.

[SandysMam]

OP, I haven’t read the full thread so apologies if this has been suggested. I would keep a lose relationship with your sister, if nothing else, you need to be aware if she moves away. My concern here would be she becomes pregnant by this monster and they do everything they can to conceal this from the authorities so he keeps access to the child. I would be terrified for futures nieces and nephews. If she goes missing, alert relevant authorities with your very real concern. There are some absolute monsters out there.

[AlternativePerspective]

No what’s sad is people excusing/justifying this behaviour off the back of a traumatic childhood.

Where do we draw that line? If the paedophile had had a traumatic childhood should we say that that’s a shame and we shouldn’t revert to this kind of black and white thinking?

If someone murders their baby and they’ve had a messed up childhood should we feel sorry for them? If a man physically rapes and abuses his wife should we feel sad for the messed up childhood he had?

This kind of thinking is the slippery slope towards people not being held responsible for their actions.

She’s an adult now. she is responsible for her behaviour as an adult.

[GetThatHelmetOn]

OP, it is hammered on us that the child is always better under the care of their mum and obviously we suffer when the situation is not exactly as per society’s expectations.

It may take a while but the best thing you can do is to reframe how you see this situation. Your nephew is safe, with a dad who cares for him and a paternal family who supports him regardless of who your sister is with.

Life is full of appearances, your sister may have appeared as a responsible interested parent who is being influenced by a criminal mind BUT if you say she has always being immature and almost “horizontal”, I would say she would have lost interest on baby due to this guy or anyone/anything else in time.

I know a guy who did what your sister did, and although he always looked like a very involved parent fully devoted to his child and family, his wife always knew that the baby was just a nice expensive toy he played with but shoved in a corner when he had something more interesting to do. He was never really there for his child as the child was never a priority for him regardless of how things looked to outsiders.

It takes a while, but with time you will come to understand and accept that what is happening to your nephew is a huge blessing in disguise. Please do not feel sorry for him, kids feel pity and take it to heart. At this time he is an incredibly lucky little boy, I’m very glad SS could move so quickly as in the vast majority of cases, that doesn’t happen until the child is severely damaged by so much abuse.

[BlackSwan]

lughnasadh I don't think your attempt at intellectualising the sister's repulsive behaviour is clever or appropriate here. She just needs to be kept as far away as possible from her kids. We aren't obliged to feel empathy for her because of her traumatic childhood.

[EternalBeloved]

I don't understand why anyone would think that her skipping contact was to protect the child, considering she tried to bring a known paedophile along to one of the visits?

[Sanitiser]

Re: Having a spray tan instead of attending supervised contact, saying she likes the peace and quiet, not seeming overly bothered.. When she was previously a good mother, this appears to make little sense.

I have worked with people with extremely complex mental health issues - what you see isn't always what you get, particularly with people who have buried trauma.

Your sister sounds like she is in complete denial. What might break through that denial? Going for contact with her son and being confronted with how real and how painful the situation actually is.. so her brain finds a way to avoid the situation completely, as its function in this situation is to stop her from breaking.

I agree with the poster who said the 'laid back' attitude might be numbness. We are all capable of putting terrifying emtions and experiences in a box mentally to protect ourselves. It is one of things that can help children to survive abuse.

When this starts in childhood, it can become a habitual response so that unpleasant or scary emotions are screened straight out. It is possible that your sister has no idea how she feels, as that disconnect has kicked in. The same as it kicked in when she found out the man she 'loves' has the past he does.

She simply doesn't believe it's true. Does that mean she is unfit to look after her child at present? Of course. But does it mean that she is an "arsehole"? I don't think so.

Life is not that simple. Traumatised children often grow into traumatised adults. Yes, not always, there are lots of factors at play and we all cope with and process our experiences differently.

OP, be kind to yourself. This is a heartbreaking situation, and more so as you have a mothering relationship with her, and it is horrendous to watch our children suffer - you are scared for both your sister and DN.

Check out the advice for supporting a woman in an abusive relationship, and that does not include scolding her or telling her to leave. You sound like a compassionate person and she is lucky to have you. But give only what you can and protect your own boundaries too

[Sanitiser]

@lughnasadh - I just looked back and saw your post, thank God there are others who are able to put this on context, there have been horrendous comments on this thread, I understand they come from fear and anger, but still..

[WiserOlder]

Is she almost constantly in a state of ''freeze''

Like her response to any kind of stress is just frozen avoidance.

If your parenting was non-existent that could be the case. C -PTSD leaving her permanently in a frozen state.

Very hard situation for you observing it without the anaesthetic.

[TheRIDs]

What an awful situation, OP. It must be incredibly hard for you to watch this unfolding.

Unfortunately, as painful as it is, what is happening is absolutely for the best. Your DN is safe and with family who can care for him. Your sister sounds completely incapable of safely parenting her child, sadly.

I understand the dynamics of grooming - both personally and professionally - so I do see how your sister is vulnerable and clearly being manipulated by this awful man. But the bottom line is it has been spelled out to her in black and white that her partner is a convicted paedophile and while she is involved with him she won’t have her child in her life. If she can’t make the right choice, she won’t get her child back, and that’s for the best.

Sending strength and life your way . Stay in touch with your DN as you have been and be the loving presence in his life from his mum’s side of the family.

[TheRIDs]

love

[Roowig2020]

Does your sister have any learning needs?

[Jeremyironseverything]

Agree that you make it clear that you are horrified by her actions and want nothing more to do with her, but also make it clear that you realise she has been groomed/has mental issues and that your door is always open when she needs help to leave him.

[LordOfTheOnionRings]

How is your nephew doing OP? Has your sister seen the light yet?

[Notsure2020]

Hi there, sorry I've not updated this in a while. No, my nephew is still with his dad and sister is still with him. She hasn't seen her son for about 3 weeks now as he is not allowed to go with her so she says until he is allowed in she won't be going I've had to take a step back now although DN is doing great. I can't see her getting him back now tbh

[CloudyVanilla]

I'm glad to hear your DN is safe from her but how awful :(

I wish there was a way to refer her for some kind of mental health support as I just don't believe a mother in any semblence of her right mind could act so disgustingly.

Are you still seeing DN even if she is not?