Black section on MN

[PatricksRum]

I think it would be great if Mumsnet could make a black parents section/ section for black users.

I agree, I started a post about Hair discrimination amongst the black community, with regards to the Usbourne book and Tesco; and lots of the responses were terrible.

@TanteRose, I also only searched within a forum, in one of the major newspaper. Not just typed in the word オリエンタル and googled it. It must be a massive hit if I did that.

@WaltzfortheMars

TanteRose and ElizabethMainwaring, are you actually orientals yourself?

There was a thread while back, if the word oriental is appropriate or not. Many of whom they are orientals themselves said they don't mind it. But many who aren't were saying it's wrong. None of my oriental friends, who are actually quite educated takes no offence either. Why do people speak for us without us wanting you to is very weird.

None of my oriental friends, who are actually quite educated

Stop it 😂😂😂

@PlanDeRaccordement

No objections from me OP. A black only section in Talk with its own sub headers like patenting, beauty, culture, history, etc- You want it, so why not? If enough other black people like it, it will be a success. MNHQ should at least trial it and see how much interest there is.

I only ask that there be a “read this” permanent post with any rules for we non blacks to follow because, for example, I don’t want to offend by posting if it’s not allowed for Asians.

Why would there be :

a) specific rules for the Black section but not for the rest of the site ?

b) specific rules based on the (presumed) skin colour of the posters ?

Is this the great equality we are all striving towards ?

PatricksRum your suggestion is a good one.

This thread is v illuminating.

a) specific rules for the Black section but not for the rest of the site ?

Because unfortunately MN doesn't moderate some threads effectively, and ridiculous and often offensive levels of whataboutery etc derail threads to the point of no return. Having an area where they actually do remove those posts (and no, it's not stifling anyone's opinions, inputs or views, it's stopping bile that adds zero to the conversation other than shutting people up) would be hugely beneficial in actually allowing these threads which have value to people to carry on.

Another one supporting this. Im BAME and was born here. I enjoy reading different perspectives on here, but sometimes the 'white, middle class' perspective is deafening.

[quote WaltzfortheMars]@TanteRose, yes, I did. And not all the comments are about hotels or trains, as you can see the first comment is asking to find" Oriental Artwork". Some people are using Oriental as their usernames. You can see that if you can read. Anyways, if the word Oriental was so offensive in Japan, why does the Hotel use that word to represent name of the Hotel?[/quote]
I can't even...

@PicsInRed, how lovely, to take a mick of use of English by a non native speaker. You must understand what I meant. Sorry for the shabby English I use.

[quote WaltzfortheMars]@PicsInRed, how lovely, to take a mick of use of English by a non native speaker. You must understand what I meant. Sorry for the shabby English I use.[/quote]
Oh, I had no idea.

What language is your first?

I don't know what the experiences of others are, but my kids who are mixed race hate the “BAME” label because it means that when statistics regarding the treatment of people of colour are released, they actually end up looking better – due to the inclusion of groups who aren’t as poorly treated as the black community, and don’t have the same history.

That is to say, my kids aren't mixed black, and their lived experiences have nothing to do with the black community. They are mixed race but have never experienced the same sort of racism or been disadvantaged in the same way as their black peers, yet they are on paper part of the BAME label.

And can you stop talking about "white people" as a collective please when you're making such sweeping statements @KenAdams what sweeping statements are you talking about? As a white person myself, I can tell you I know we are all guilty of assumptions and thinking that "white" is a default for everything – from beauty standards to whom MN should cater and provide for.

@TanteRose, I can't even what? Do you need to educate whole of Japan how use of the word Orient is offensive and not to the western standard?

Not to hijack but slightly different I'm white, my DH is black and son obviously mixed. I would appreciate speaking to other similar families... There are lots of considerations my white family and friends just don't have.

Anyways, I'm out, enough derailing. Sorry, OP.

Yes, it's a good idea, why not? There's Craicnet, and that doesn't mean that Irish people never post on other parts of the site, does it?
I also don't think Craicnet gets people saying it's sometimes assumed they have Irish heritage, but they don't, so are they allowed to post on Craicnet ?Or that they have one Irish parent, so is it for them? I think that broadly, Irish users sometimes want to have Irish-specific conversations without people assuming they are in England, and that's OK.
I really hate BAME too, it really just means "non-white"anyway. Lots of ethnic minorities in the UK are white, but no-one actually means them when they say "BAME".
Global Majority is good. Or BlackNet!

Having read that over I'm probably wrong about Craicnet and they get all sorts of annoying questions!

@ColleagueFromMars

I'm a white person.

The comments on this thread from white people show exactly the institutionalised nature of racism.

When the black lives matter protests happened, many of us vowed to educate ourselves better about what institutional racism is and how we can make sure that we as individuals and organisations are a) at a minimum not part of the problem and b) actively helpful in dismantling racism.

I was slow off the mark but I've now watched a documentary and read Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race (which I highly recommend). I also found Little Fires Everywhere on amazon prime helpful if distressing in understanding every day institutional racism, even though it's fiction. I'm fully aware I've not scratched the surface and I've got many miles and miles to go, but at least I can see the racism from multiple users on this thread now.

Just because you "don't see race/racism" on a forum doesn't mean it doesn't exist here. In fact the fact that you don't see it is part of the problem.

A black person is asking for a section of mumsnet that would be helpful to her and other black people. Black people on this thread are literally telling you that they find mumsnet white-centric and that they would like this space. Black people having their own section of this forum has ZERO impact on your enjoyment and accessibility to and of the site. If you're a white person bleating that this is seggregation, that you don't see any racism, that this shouldn't happen for any reason, then just sit the fuck down and shut up. This isn't about or for you. It doesn't affect you. Listen to the black people on this thread and try to imagine what it's like to have white people bleating that you're not even allowed a tiny corner of mumsnet because they, white people, have decided it shouldn't be allowed.

Do your damn homework.

-

I've been looking for a study group for reading and discussing how to be a better race ally. I've come up blank so far. If anybody would be interested in an ongoing thread on here, or if you know of suxh a group i could join, please let me know.

Very good post. Thank you.

or MNHQ who once deleted one of my posts because mentioning my ethnicity was something that “we can’t leave things like that stand, I’m afraid”.

That’s not entirely true, is it SimonJT. I reported your comment due to you using the racial slur ‘Pa*i’. It’s not nice to read, even if you claim to be from that ethnicity yourself.

I bet they get a load of "I'm Irish American and my grandma's family came from County Cork, do you know them?"

I would actually post more if there was a black section as even when I read posts from an OP where her race is a factor, there will be 20 good and relevant replies out of a sea of whataboutery, it's your fault, you are overthinking this and blatant denial.

So many times when I wanted to post but couldn't deal with the explaining myself before I can get an ounce of support. Like when I gave birth to my son and he had one testicle that hadn't descended. I was beside myself with worry and the nurse trying to be helpful made anjoke about his genetalia and the BBC thing being distinguishable so young. It was racist, rapey and smacked of paedophilia but I was positive noone would understand outside of my family and black friends. I was alone, after visiting hours and it was late and it would have been nice to have posted somewhere for support.

People often say just go start your own forum then but that's beside the issue and is something we hear even when we complain about things in this country. Even Afua Hirsch was told on live TV, that if she hates it so much here as she is constantly criticising and pointing out racism why doesn't she leave the country.

I hope MN listens

The tip of the spear is an idiom that exists in English, particularly used in military English.

Yes, it does. But it doesnt mean what you seem to think it means in the context of the rest of your statement.

I’m BAME and not black. I think this is a good idea.

Apologies for not having got back to you earlier, @PatricksRum, we've got a few threads that are needing some quite intense moderating at the moment.
Just to say yes it's absolutely something we're looking at doing in response to this thread and other discussions.
We're responding to several reports re this thread, certainly, but would also welcome thoughts from MNers as to how a new board should be shaped. Thanks!

Well done OP!

I would only gently suggest that threads which are begun elsewhere don't get automatically moved across to the new section by MNHQ unless the OP of that thread wants it moved.

It would be helpful if the new space were a safe space for discussion but not a place all related discussions were required to go.

I can't be the only person who has a different username for most discussions in order to not be linked to 'being black'. I feel like the quality of the advice I get about things would diminish if somebody did an advanced search and realised I'm 'just BAME'. Now that might not be what would happen... but I feel that way for a reason.

I'd feel much better talking about some issues in a dedicated space for people with my heritage. The same way women with issues about being a woman take to the feminism boards.

I don't believe that would mean we'd need a section for every other culture and race. However, I do imagine a section for Asian/ Islamic people might also be much appreciated, although I'm not Islamic or Asian so I can't really speak too much about that. Being black, Asian or Islamic in the UK is such a huge thing that is so underrepresented in social forums.

People asking why it's necessary to have a black section at all, will have their eyes opened when they check on what's being discussed on the boards. I hope this happens.