Remote working is killing city centres...but what's the alternative?

[Eastie77]

Reading today about Pret cutting almost 3,000 jobs and articles about the death of city centres due to the lack of office workers. My company has announced that all employees can work from home for another year. I honestly doubt our central London office will re-open or at least in the form it took before, ie they may just keep renting part of it for occasional client meetings.

The government is pushing workers back into the office but realistically people are not going to go back while they have the option to WFH and companies have realised they can save on office costs and get the same output from their staff. I am happy to WFH but I really feel for all the local businesses that relied on office workers and are now facing closure. I work close to our office and 6 independent coffee shops and small cafes have closed😔 Not sure what the answer is.

The change will affect us all even those in a secure job

Tax hikes are likely I think

@juggyty

The change will affect us all even those in a secure job

Tax hikes are likely I think

Tax hikes as well as reductions in public spending. It's going to be very painful and I just don't understand people saying this is a great thing to happen without looking at the whole picture.

what's the alternative though? make people crowd onto public transport & packed offices?

The truth is decades of making everything about London has caught the economy out now that it's time to decentralise.

Scotland aren't panicking about offices because they arent so centric around one city.

I think its less of an issue than Brexit is going to cause, to be honest. A culture and economy built of fast food was never going to be in the nations best interests and will have added to the problems we are about to face. The real issue is not the pandemic - that is, in part, a cover story.
Low paid work in other areas such as agriculture, food and supply chains and more holidays at home may, in time, possibly offset some of the losses in major cities and global business may see less profits but people's health may benefit.
We're about to go back to the 1930s, and I'd guess that there will be major cuts to support services and benefits ahead. Many will have to take whatever work they can get to survive.

I think some of the problems are down to over zealous risk assessments. @Jalapinot for instance, businesses don’t have to make things like that disposable for office staff, you simply ask them to bring their own mug/knife/fork and stick to it.

Obviously many offices will have a reduced capacity but I’ve seen quite a lot of claims made about measures needed which are not necessary.

PurpleDaisies

This is just a faster version of what would probably have happened anyway. It’s really sad for those who are affected but I do think generally it’s for the best that more are working from home.“

Agree. For many, the positives outweigh the negatives.
Climate change has slipped off the agenda a bit but it’s not going anywhere and we were all going to have to change our ways of living for that if nothing else.

I mean no disrespect to foreign workers whatsoever. I'm sure they do a great job in their first language.

But I run a company that works in England and Wales and we already deal with the issue of bilingualism. Our reputation is built on our customer service, which a foreign worker wouldn't have a hope in hell of achieving without word perfect nuance, plus experience of the industry in the UK.

I have slightly poor hearing myself and REALLY struggle with strong accents on the phone. I just can't see the threatened shift following through where it wasn't already possible for the company to do so.

I think wages will reduce - but then cost of living will alter too. Rents will even out between naice suburbs and city centres, as the well off will move somewhere marginally cheaper and expect village cafes etc operating during the day. Food will almost certainly be more expensive because of brexit.

It's not remotely as straightforward as EITHER "tralala now I save all this money with no consequences" OR "tralala, now my staff work from home I might as well outsource complex problems to foreign workers".

(automation and self service technology are still a far bigger threat to jobs than outsourcing - the technology is making extreme leaps that most people don't even see, but correspondingly that increases the value of those roles that can't be automated)

I don’t believe you can grab your computer and wfh in whatever country you like.

I have a friend that does exactly this. She is based in HK and has property in Thailand and Cyprus. She just adjusts her time to HK.

My sister works from wherever her laptop is in the UK. Her clients would never know she is sitting in DM's garden having a cup of tea.

My brother does this too but he's not a low paid worker. I don't think anyone said no jobs can be done remotely.

I didn’t mean of course that you can’t work from wherever you like in the UK . And you can take your laptop on holiday abroad, too, if needs be.

I was responding to someone suggesting that you could move abroad and retain your UK job as is. It’s not as simple as that.

I feel sad for independent places but big chains not so much. I live in London but an area with no “attractions”. People really only get off at my local tube station if they live or work here, or are visiting someone, there’s nothing else here. Yet there are 4 costa shops within 10 minutes walk of my house! It’s overkill. I do feel for staff losing their jobs in these places but all these big brands have taken over everywhere and it won’t pain me to see some of them close.

We already had a Costa and 2 independent coffee shops within steps of our tube station. When an empty unit came up by the station I was excited to see what we’d get there. It was a Starbucks! Again I won’t be shedding any tears if it closes.

The customers are to blame, though. In my town Costa killed stone dead the independent coffee places. People like their loyalty points and the uniformity of the product. The independent places are more expensive, and often - although the opposite is always trumpeted - not very nice .

In better times I decided to visit a different coffee shop every trip in nearby city - I didn’t cover all of them! - but I had some duff experiences in several independent ones, namely the Costco cakes (dd and I immediately recognised them!) , lukewarm drinks, stale cakes (they are not going to waste a cut cake like a chain would) and unclean premises. The winners were cafe Nero for consistently good coffee and pastries and cleanliness, and an independent patisserie which is really nice but admittedly not an every day experience as very pricey.

Jobs will be sent abroad, but people don't realise this now. They'll regret it, but only when it's too late.

But businesses could do that regardless. They've seen the potential of their workforce working remotely, if they are going to make such a big decision it won't just be based on whether people are physically back in an office yet or if they're working from home; it will be made regardless using the info etc of how it worked when the lockdown was more severe. I do agree though that things will change immensely, I love working in the office though so I guess maybe I'm more open to seeing the negatives.

Businesses will do what is best for their functioning and their profits,
regardless of whether their employees prefer to WoH or WFH

SImilarly, they won't consider the viability of other businesses like Pret when making business decisions

The COVID crisis has accelerated the WFH trend so that it happened in a few months instead of 10-20 years,
but the change was inevitable at some stage

• remote-working can cut costs for those businesses whose work can be done that way, which is all that matters for them

@TSSDNCOP

I don’t believe you can grab your computer and wfh in whatever country you like.

I have a friend that does exactly this. She is based in HK and has property in Thailand and Cyprus. She just adjusts her time to HK.

My sister works from wherever her laptop is in the UK. Her clients would never know she is sitting in DM's garden having a cup of tea.

Richard Littlejohn wrote an article in the Mail yesterday demanding everyone back to the office, while admitting he's worked from home in Florida for years.

It all depends on your profession. If you're a writer for example you only really need a laptop to work (beyond that it depends on the kind of writing etc)

Could be disastrous to us in country towns as people become wfh no need to live in big cities so they sell up and move outwards , which puts house prices / rent up in our areas , where pay is a fraction for most than in big cities and jobs harder to come by. In my area since covid house prices have gone up and i know of several people who work in london discussing moving out now there is no need to go into an office

Regarding location, I am not allowed to continue in my contract unless I live near enough to get into the office when needed. So overseas wouldn't be ok. Also they want me covered by UK laws etc I think.

My dh is having wfh at moment and for some of us its a nightmare , we have had to squeeze a desk in out bedroom which is piled high with work stuff , we have nowhere else for it to go
During lockdown also both ds were working on laptops etc with college work and internet struggled
Dh firms seem to like them wfh but for us its not great as we don't have room , my electric bill is up and im sure my gas will be once winter hits , petrol we save hardly any on as his job is office and field based so he gets mileage, we have also had to buy a desk , a chair and a printer so are out of pocket

@Notfeelinggreattoday

Could be disastrous to us in country towns as people become wfh no need to live in big cities so they sell up and move outwards , which puts house prices / rent up in our areas , where pay is a fraction for most than in big cities and jobs harder to come by. In my area since covid house prices have gone up and i know of several people who work in london discussing moving out now there is no need to go into an office

But more people in your town during the day will mean local shops, cafes, etc will have more potential customers, thus taking on more staff, and then new businesses will open, also taking on more staff. You can't look at one aspect in isolation.

The brain drain towards a few big cities has left a vacuum in regional towns, villages etc as the younger generations have moved to the cities for good jobs rather than return to their home towns. That's why a lot of regional towns have really suffered and become virtual ghost towns. Any reversal of London Centricity has to be a good thing overall.

You’re missing the point. It’s an absolute reduction in jobs. Even if Pret etc could magically relocate to the suburbs with no penalty, do you think that people WFH are going to be going out to buy lunch, breakfast, coffee etc in anything like the same numbers? Of course not

The world changes and the nature of the jobs needed changes. We no longer have chimney sweeps or gas lamp lighters in anything like the numbers we did. But we have new jobs like computer technicians and call-centre workers.

Those ex-Pret workers will have to work in jobs for which there is a demand,e.g. supermarket picking. We can’t artificially keep their unneeded jobs going.

Richard Littlejohn's article was hilarious. I do need to stay away from the Daily Fail but couldn't resist reading it. He called everyone who wants to WFH selfish twats hellbent on destroying the economy and not caring about 'white van man' who has to go out the work. In the next breath he admitted he has worked from home for decades and boasted about how great the lifestyle has been for him, he only has to leave home to go out for boozy pub lunches and never has to worry about office life. One rule for Dick, another for the rest of us!

This economy is based on consumer spending so that is why they are desperate to get us back to offices - assuming we will spend like we used to. I have a suspicion that if people go back to the office they won't spend like they used to. They will bring sandwiches from home and coffee. They will have broken the spending habits and realise how much they spent on unnecessary stuff. I could be wrong but I don't think the economy will bounce back once we return to the office.

@jewel1968

This economy is based on consumer spending so that is why they are desperate to get us back to offices - assuming we will spend like we used to. I have a suspicion that if people go back to the office they won't spend like they used to. They will bring sandwiches from home and coffee. They will have broken the spending habits and realise how much they spent on unnecessary stuff. I could be wrong but I don't think the economy will bounce back once we return to the office.

Exactly! No way will I be spending on lunchtime food like before. Such a waste of money and unnecessary calories.