Remote working is killing city centres...but what's the alternative?

[Eastie77]

Reading today about Pret cutting almost 3,000 jobs and articles about the death of city centres due to the lack of office workers. My company has announced that all employees can work from home for another year. I honestly doubt our central London office will re-open or at least in the form it took before, ie they may just keep renting part of it for occasional client meetings.

The government is pushing workers back into the office but realistically people are not going to go back while they have the option to WFH and companies have realised they can save on office costs and get the same output from their staff. I am happy to WFH but I really feel for all the local businesses that relied on office workers and are now facing closure. I work close to our office and 6 independent coffee shops and small cafes have closed😔 Not sure what the answer is.

@tectonicplates yes I do think so. A couple of friends worked in very toxic work environments with lots of bullying and they have been a lot happier since their offices closed. I wasn't bullied per se but the team dynamics were unpleasant and I'm glad I now only have to deal with my colleagues online. Zoom fatigue is really settling in though.

Re. the economy, I think a lot of new businesses offering services to combat specific WFH issues will spring up. My neighbour is running express lunchtime fitness sessions in our local park and has marketed to people who are working at home, sitting in front of their laptops all day and feel sluggish/have put on weight because they no longer enjoy a daily walk to and from work. It is something I actually miss. On the plus side, I will now be able to do the school drop off and pick up which will involve walking around 4 miles a day in total.

I don't think many people will return to their office this side of Christmas. But they should. Not in a mad rush, but gradually. People just don't want to because of the commute. Mostly selfish reasons, rather than looking at the business bigger reasons.

But this will do bad damage long term. Jobs will be sent abroad, but people don't realise this now. They'll regret it, but only when it's too late.

It’s interesting. The benefits far outweigh the negatives imvho.

My DH’s office and parking facilities have long been too small and they were already working 3 days a week with parking rationed. With social distancing they can only fit 9 in the office which wouldn’t even fit his team in. They are now all working from home full time.

A whole new world of job opportunities will be opening up for dh as if everything stays like this he could literally apply for jobs all over the place. I think this is much fairer. Why should only those who can afford London housing get the plum jobs.

Environmentally it can only be a positive. It will be interesting to see what the roads are like when schools go back.

Dh is angry the gov want to throw the health of workers under the bus to sell a few sandwiches as he puts it. The fact is city centres were shoving out many pre Covid and didn’t care two hoots. Parking is insanely expensive, ditto bus fares. We avoided going in if we could and dh always took a packed lunch anyway.You reap what you sow.

Neg- dh continuously under my feet, house never empty. Accommodating his big office screens and chair.Having a room out of bounds. Being away from people although he is in continuous meetings.

I think @Oblomov20 most people are looking at a mix so an increase of remote working not a complete transition. Some of the money will be put into local areas instead.

This all jobs will be sent abroad spiel. No, some will just like pre Covid but there is pros & cons & plenty of people in the UK work 100% remotely & earn good money so how come those jobs even exist?

DH used to work 1 day a week at home & now he's looking at 2-3 days in the office which I think will be the pattern most big firms stick too. I've always worked 1 of my 3 days at home but one reason I got the job was because I live virtually around the corner & can get there quick if needed.

Hotdesking hubs are likely to pop up closer to homes so people can "go to work" locally.

I like this idea and think it could happen. I do wonder about confidentiality though, other people seeing your screen or overhearing your calls....

It might be killing city centres but it has greatly benefitted our local economy - the village bakery is doing a roaring lunchtime trade and the pub seems to be catching a fair bit of it too.

We're farmers and I'm looking at converting some farm buildings into hot desk space - would people enjoy working in a more rural environment with the views if I can guarantee high speed fibre broadband and phone signal? I love working from our corner of the world - it will be a long time because I go back to my office.

There were too many Pret A Manger branches in central London anyway. They are totally ubiquitous with some branches literally metres apart from each other. They had already taken over most of the old traditional Italian cafes.

As others have said, local coffee shops and sandwich bars are really thriving. It’s totally bustling round me. Pret A Manger etc will just have to relocate out of city centres.

To be honest the explosion in city centre coffee and sandwich shops since around 2000 has been ridiculous and unsustainable anyhow imo.

Can’t believe the government are now stopping so low as to intimate that people working from home are more likely to lose their jobs.

Tbh I’d rather spend my money locally than spend £10 each day in pret. Maybe pret (etc) will just open more local branches? Im going back in 2 days a week because i miss being out of the house.

But this will do bad damage long term. Jobs will be sent abroad, but people don't realise this now

Why?

London did this to itself when it didnt accommodate people who work there to live in it

This.

I reckon there is a massive business opportunity for secure individual office spaces with large screens already in place, where they clean the desk thoroughly each night and you bring your own keyboard and mouse. I wouldn't go every day but I'd love that option to do it for some peace. You could charge by the hour and do a discount day rate. It would be heaven.

My firm is very keen to get everyone back in the office, despite the fact the office is very small and cramped, so can't possibly be Covid-safe (they had a sickness bug go through the office the other week and apparently there is no hand sanitiser at the entrance).

I've not had to go back as those of us with kids were allowed to stay WFH until 7 Sept, but they expect everybody back there on that date.

However, during lockdown I've found myself a new job with a firm that's realised during lockdown that they can employ people from anywhere round the U.K., so I'll permanently WFH for them, with the odd trip to the office 170 miles away (conveniently in the town where my parents / family live).

Due to the fact I'm leaving, I've negotiated with my current firm to WFH until my leaving date at the beginning of October.

I already have a friend at the new place, who poached me, and I've also poached a colleague who doesn't want to go back to the office either and leaves a couple of weeks after me (he has also negotiated staying WFH until he leaves).

It suits me to WFH, I like getting up a bit later, I'll be able to take the kids to school and I took my lunch anyway, so Pret etc won't be missing me!

I know it doesn't suit everybody, and if people want to go back to the office, even if they also WFH more now, then that's fine by me. But I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore.

Here's what I don't understand - most people have had to make huge adjustments/sacrifices over past several months, yet we are now supposed to rush back to the office because the PM tells us?

But there is so much opportunity - delivered lunches, delivered dinners, use of common space socially distant, delivery between offices, personal type shopping where you need items from different shops, Covid type cleaning etc.

It’s such a pity for cafe and independent shop owners tho

A lot in city centres have been pushed out by chains anyway, and for those in smaller villages they have a new client base essentially. Debbie who used to commute to London every day and buy a coffee walking from the underground to her office, and then lunch in London, and maybe even a snack at the station before travelling home is now at home, and although probably spending less on food and coffee out, she will likely spend a bit more than she used to in her local town or village. Especially in some places there will be quite a few in the same boat, although that will vary around the country. Either way, I feel sad for those losing their jobs, but it's not a huge loss to lose faceless moneymaking chains that have popped up all over the high street- some streets even have more than one of the same.

My office that previously housed 100 people can now only cope (after an expensive risk assessment) with 35 to be compliant with social distancing rules. I can see why the leadership team have deemed it pointless to reopen at this time. Our office manager told me that cleaning costs would massively increase plus they'd have to provide disposable crockery and cutlery, only one in the lift at a time, one way walkways through the office.

London did this to itself when it didnt accommodate people who work there to live in it

Also agree with this. It would be nice if there was a way for communities within London to be centred more around the people who live there, rather than those who work and then return home at the end of the day.

Something I have noticed about WfH is that you need a different skill set. I have chaired a few meetings with large numbers and it is a bit like being a radio host. You really don't want silence for too long and it can also be challenging to control things so everyone gets a chance to speak. I find it quite stressful.

Like others said I do think some of the office negative behaviour reduces. Much harder to bully someone over the phone.

Of course it enrages all those who've been investing office real estate in large cities, but hey, I don't see why former commuters should subsidise these people's lifestyle choice.

Trouble with this is that a LOT of pension funds are invested in corporate property. So not as clear cut as all that...

Agreed. The people whose ‘lifestyle choices’ you think you are ‘subsidising’ by going to work are ordinary people whose pension funds are invested in the FTSE 100. Do you know how many FTSE 100 businesses are heavily invested in prime city centre commercial property, directly and indirectly?

As for the ‘faceless chains’ that have attracted such scorn: they employ real people. Or do you consider that the thousands of people laid off by Pret this week are also ‘faceless’?

The pension aspect & unemployment is an issue but unfortunately businesses will do what saves them money. My local Pret is busy so there could be an opportunity to have more outside of zone 1. I do notice though that in my area people very much favour independents over chain eg Starbucks closed but we have a loads of independent cafes.

the thousands of people laid off by Pret this week

Very sad but there are different jobs available e.g. supermarket and amazon pickers, delivery drivers.

The change will affect us all even those in a secure job. If a mass move to WFH causes business to fail or stop paying rent for offices it will take a very long time for enough demand to shift to local areas to compensate. All that time there will be higher employment, less tax and as other have said affects pensions and other areas like public services including the NHS.

Very sad but there are different jobs available e.g. supermarket and amazon pickers, delivery drivers.

You’re missing the point. It’s an absolute reduction in jobs. Even if Pret etc could magically relocate to the suburbs with no penalty, do you think that people WFH are going to be going out to buy lunch, breakfast, coffee etc in anything like the same numbers? Of course not.