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Remote working is killing city centres...but what's the alternative?

393 replies

Eastie77 · 28/08/2020 13:19

Reading today about Pret cutting almost 3,000 jobs and articles about the death of city centres due to the lack of office workers. My company has announced that all employees can work from home for another year. I honestly doubt our central London office will re-open or at least in the form it took before, ie they may just keep renting part of it for occasional client meetings.

The government is pushing workers back into the office but realistically people are not going to go back while they have the option to WFH and companies have realised they can save on office costs and get the same output from their staff. I am happy to WFH but I really feel for all the local businesses that relied on office workers and are now facing closure. I work close to our office and 6 independent coffee shops and small cafes have closed😔 Not sure what the answer is.

OP posts:
jewel1968 · 29/08/2020 14:23

I have often wondered how much we spend to go to work. Travel is an obvious expense but I wondered how much we spend on less obvious stuff:

  • tights
  • make up
  • office clothes
  • shoes
  • lunches and coffees
  • gym membership to make up for sitting at desk all day

I think we all now know roughly how much we spend on these less obvious expenses. A real eye opener. As someone said the genie is out of the bottle.

Pleasebeafleabite · 29/08/2020 14:41

I think we all now know roughly how much we spend on these less obvious expenses. A real eye opener. As someone said the genie is out of the bottle

I agree and thought the other day I had probably bought my last work suit and felt a bit sad

On the other hand home heating bills will rise noticeably in the winter for those normally out all day

Iamthewombat · 29/08/2020 14:55

The world changes and the nature of the jobs needed changes. We no longer have chimney sweeps or gas lamp lighters in anything like the numbers we did. But we have new jobs like computer technicians and call-centre workers.

Those ex-Pret workers will have to work in jobs for which there is a demand,e.g. supermarket picking. We can’t artificially keep their unneeded jobs going.

Seriously? Do you genuinely think that the catering and hospitality industry is analogous to the chimney sweeping industry (if you can call it that!) from Victorian times?

Do you know how important the catering/hospitality industry is to the UK economy? Clearly not. If a large part of that closes down, you can’t just airily say, “oh, they can just get a job in a call centre or in a supermarket”. What makes you think that demand in those industries is going to increase significantly starting from now? Tesco might be recruiting some extra roles but that’s not going to absorb all the people who work on city centres supplying consumer needs.

What do you think Eat Out to Help Out was about? Giving people access to cheap dinners so that they could save £10? No, it was about propping up a major industry that employs loads of people.

That is why several posters have pointed out that your savings on transport to work, sandwiches etc. don’t come at nil cost. Somebody will be paying the price, and it’s most likely going to be the lower paid people who work in cafes, in sandwich shops, in the factories preparing sandwiches and salads for city centre shops to sell (Greencore, one of the biggest suppliers, tend to site their factories in poorer areas) and in cleaning catering outlets.

I think that the debate is academic anyway: during the 2008/09 financial crisis we were told that there would be a permanent shift in how we lived our lives, but there wasn’t. People have short memories. I suspect that in two years’ time we’ll be back to living and working very much as we did pre-Covid.

jewel1968 · 29/08/2020 14:56

People could heat just one room rather than the whole house/flat. Electric oil filled radiators are good for this if your heating system isn't sophisticated enough to part heat the home.

jewel1968 · 29/08/2020 15:01
  • I suspect that in two years’ time we’ll be back to living and working very much as we did pre-Covid.

Maybe - suspect it will depend on how long we are in this phase. Takes a while to change habits and form new habits.

thecatsthecats · 29/08/2020 15:08

@jewel1968

I have often wondered how much we spend to go to work. Travel is an obvious expense but I wondered how much we spend on less obvious stuff:
  • tights
  • make up
  • office clothes
  • shoes
  • lunches and coffees
  • gym membership to make up for sitting at desk all day

I think we all now know roughly how much we spend on these less obvious expenses. A real eye opener. As someone said the genie is out of the bottle.

The thing is, I think I've been really cheered by bolstering my private wardrobe to reflect the amount of time I get to dress in clothes that suit my gothy tastes compared to my work wear.

And with the gym, I am still chained to my home desk. My job hasn't become more active.

There's a rebalancing, sure, but it's not a complete change. I certainly found that my expectations of my new "free time" were incredibly optimistic at the beginning of lockdown. Even my furloughed friends are surprised by how little they got done, because making your own sandwiches gets boring.

I'd kill for a sandwich van to stop by on my street just so I don't have to bloody feed myself AGAIN.

Egghead68 · 29/08/2020 15:31

Seriously?

Yes, I am serious.

Thanksitsgotpockets · 29/08/2020 15:40

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

Hotdesking hubs are likely to pop up closer to homes so people can "go to work" locally.

I like this idea and think it could happen. I do wonder about confidentiality though, other people seeing your screen or overhearing your calls....

I like this idea, but I'm wondering how it would be paid for? Would it be the company or employee. Or paid for by buying coffees etc...

Some sort of subscription that includes other perks like gym membership?

nosswith · 29/08/2020 15:55

The government should look as to how many of its team members in Whitehall and other central government departments are back in an office, even one day a week, before asking others to. If 20% are on holiday or shielding and 20% of the remainder are in the office, that means 16% in the office. The figure is a lot lower.

IrmaFayLear · 29/08/2020 16:38

It’s not just “ lowly” sandwich workers who are affected. Cousin works in business conferences and has just been made redundant - a buoyant business just tanked overnight. And it’s the hotels involved, the restaurants and catering, travel, etc etc.

If a business fails usually the writing was on the wall for some time previously. If you worked in Blockbuster video you knew you were living on borrowed time. But so many businesses were destroyed completely out of the blue by Covid. Think of the cruise industry: it seems like just five minutes ago so many of us were complaining about the effect of giant cruise ships rocking up everywhere. I read today that Carnival Cruises who were anticipating record levels of business are seriously worried now.

Bullatagate · 29/08/2020 17:08

I live in a commuter town - a lot people i know wfh and have dedicated space to do so. Most of them wfh part time before covid, but travelled into London for meetings etc, and for leisure/shopping less often. Most are established in their careers, and presumably have a rapport with colleagues and contacts. I think, like pp have mentioned it will be harder for graduates or new starters to totally wfh. My niece is in their mid twenties and looking for a job in London. Shes desperate to live and work in London.

chomalungma · 29/08/2020 18:05

@Bullatagate

I live in a commuter town - a lot people i know wfh and have dedicated space to do so. Most of them wfh part time before covid, but travelled into London for meetings etc, and for leisure/shopping less often. Most are established in their careers, and presumably have a rapport with colleagues and contacts. I think, like pp have mentioned it will be harder for graduates or new starters to totally wfh. My niece is in their mid twenties and looking for a job in London. Shes desperate to live and work in London.
Again - that's the bubble thing.

People think it's working for them and they are set up to do it - but they are part of a larger organisation and it affects people below them - which in turn will effect an organisation as a whole.

ChavvySexPond · 29/08/2020 18:16

I haven't read the thread, but I'd love it if Pret moved into one of the empty shops in my town.

Crawlbee · 29/08/2020 18:21

Office clothes vary I guess, I tend to buy some staples in the sales, Dorothy Perkins I can usually get a few pairs of trousers, a blazer and some skirts for £30, and then I tend to buy shirts or blouses that are in my style and that I wear out of work too. So work specific stuff I don't spend a load on, but still manage to rotate to get tonnes of outfits out of it. If though you work somewhere were you need actual tailored suit levels of smart, or if you'd never, ever wear anything that would be acceptable in the office out of choice then I guess it's a lot more. I do loads of zoom calls at home so dress the same to be honest.

Charleyhorses · 29/08/2020 18:22

I'll be WFH from 7th Sept. I'll be doing 8-4 with an hour for lunch. That hour will see me walking to out local high street for a coffee or lunch sometimes. Like others, local high street is booming. Some how I now live in a beautiful part of the country with no need at to spend hours on a train travelling to London.

Eastie77 · 29/08/2020 18:32

Well apparently the government's 'official' media campaign to get people back into the office starts next week so can't wait to see what that looks like and what their catchy slogan will be

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 29/08/2020 18:33

On R4 commentators were saying it’s a mistake to restart this at same time as schools. I’m inclined to agree. Let schools have a shot first and see where any surge is coming from.

tectonicplates · 29/08/2020 18:36

@Eastie77

Well apparently the government's 'official' media campaign to get people back into the office starts next week so can't wait to see what that looks like and what their catchy slogan will be
It's going to be hilariously awful Grin
Eastie77 · 29/08/2020 18:44

I'm thinking something awful along the lines of "Backing Britain to Get Back to Work" with a picture of smiling people marching confidently into offices.

OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 29/08/2020 18:45

It's ok, The Guardian has written it for them.

Leave home. Forget the NHS. Save Pret

frasersmummy · 29/08/2020 18:52

Meanwhile in Scotland nicola sturgeon is determined no one should return to work any time soon
I'm. Fed up wfh.. I was widowed a few years ago.. The banter with my colleagues was one of the things keeping me sane

yeOldeTrout · 29/08/2020 18:52

I wondered how much we spend on less obvious stuff:
- tights,- make up : I didn't ever use

- office clothes,- shoes: charity shop buys. Even the shoes. Head to toe expense for 3 outfits which got me thru the week for one year: £20-£30?

- lunches and coffees
Tea was supplied by work; lunches I brought from home. I don't buy coffee (at all).

- gym membership to make up for sitting at desk all day
I Cycled to the office. Group of us walked to Sainsbury's to buy lunch top up things daily (which could be cheap, cheese & tomatoes...). Allowed to use fridge at work. I guess maybe not now, though. eek.

NoWordForFluffy · 29/08/2020 18:52

@Eastie77

I'm thinking something awful along the lines of "Backing Britain to Get Back to Work" with a picture of smiling people marching confidently into offices.
That's too long; it needs to be 3 words!
Thanksitsgotpockets · 29/08/2020 18:54

@Eastie77

Well apparently the government's 'official' media campaign to get people back into the office starts next week so can't wait to see what that looks like and what their catchy slogan will be
I wonder how it fits in with Handcock's dire threats of more lockdowns
TheFaerieQueene · 29/08/2020 19:01

I think that some people will want to go back to the office. In many respects, particularly for young people it is the best way to develop relationships with more experienced staff and learn from their experience.

People that don’t go back to the office will have more disposable income - no commuting costs - so this money can be spent in other ways, so whilst it might not be a daily coffee and sandwich and a season ticket, it might be going to the theatre, concert, restaurant.

People like to spend money, they might just spend it differently.

Some might chose to save the additional funds, which again is good for the economy.

Things will balance, it just might be a different balance.

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