Remote working is killing city centres...but what's the alternative?

[Eastie77]

Reading today about Pret cutting almost 3,000 jobs and articles about the death of city centres due to the lack of office workers. My company has announced that all employees can work from home for another year. I honestly doubt our central London office will re-open or at least in the form it took before, ie they may just keep renting part of it for occasional client meetings.

The government is pushing workers back into the office but realistically people are not going to go back while they have the option to WFH and companies have realised they can save on office costs and get the same output from their staff. I am happy to WFH but I really feel for all the local businesses that relied on office workers and are now facing closure. I work close to our office and 6 independent coffee shops and small cafes have closed😔 Not sure what the answer is.

@jorgeous Everything won't be outsourced overseas, my point is that the internet and the ability to have excellent audio/visual via SIP, means that many functions can be done anywhere, the tech is cheap and reliable.
Of course many functions cannot be done remotely but a lot of the hi skilled tech and finance sector can be.

Most of europe has already phased out PSTN, the UK still persists but its going.

The UK is becoming relatively low wage low productivity country, that will may well continue, its RnD in automation lags most of europe.

Not everyone can move to the EU.

*ISDN not PSTN

Because you replied to the below point

I don't believe all jobs are going to be outsourced to someone with a computer in a different country

with

Well, i work for a large sub contracting IT company and we are outsourcing many functions to Bulgaria

I assumed you thought it would be a massive shift. It's been happening for yrs pre Covid. I just don't think that if many firms make remote working the norm it will result in a huge swing. I think most firms will want 1-2 days in the office.

I work in finance & like most of my peers already had an element of home working pre Covid.

I have a solution (maybe).

City centre office space is converted into residential use. I know this isn't always easy but they put a man on the moon, they can do this.
Empty shops on the high street are converted into small local office spaces where large companies can rent a desk (or the whole shop) for employees who can't wfh easily or want to be in an office.

This might give back some business to city centre pubs and cafes etc. It might also rejuvenate the dying high street in small towns and suburbs.

They are the ecosystem that services the offices and that has changed. A new ecosystem around home working will develop.

I disagree that companies can get the same service from employees in India or the Phillipines. I Ieft BT after one particularly batshit call with an Indian call centre worker. They'll never get my money again after having been a customer for 20+ years.

There was a piece on BBC website the other day (actually on the back of Barbados offering special visas to those “wfh” in UK) and I understood that you may well be liable to double taxation (ie in both countries) as well as other security restrictions.

Can't speak for Barbados and the UK but there are bilateral taxation agreements between many countries to avoid an individual being exposed to double taxation on the same income.

I've not done "WFH" but I have been in a job where I was able to access
portions of the company system in the UK from abroad using company provided IT kit, though security considerations did prevent "access to all areas" from off site.

jorgeous You didn't pick up on the "many functions" not all...

If companies did go for a 1 or 2 days in the office operation, that would be a huge shift in working practice.

But that gives no advantage, the employer still needs to maintain local infrastructure and buildings, if support/admin etc can be done in cheaper employment countries... why not?

Look i don't support it but it works, the company i work for are doing it right now and saving a fortune, they laid off staff, closed offices and many that are still required, are working from home (but not all, they still need office based staff)

BT pulled back most if not all their call centre ops to the UK for the reasons the PP gave and rightly so, it was a nightmare, language and reading parot style from a script were the biggest problems.

To be honest I think it is incredibly sad for the next generation. I look at my 22 year old son who is WFH and hates it and it breaks my heart to think this may be the norm . I loved working in an office in my youth, meeting people, the social side drinks after work, finding out about different areas of the business not just my own, networking , training and developing corporate skills from others . Also I think work requires discipline which tends to be instilled in us firstly from working in a structured environment. Also Graduate training schemes/apprenticeships how are these going to work if we are all WFH. I honestly believe we have an almost moral duty to try and keep some sort of office opportunity for them otherwise how will the next generation develop any skills locked in their bedrooms/living room

What she said.

For everyone crowing over how much they are saving on rail fares/parking/lunches/childcare whilst WFH: you do realise that all these savings are somebody else’s livelihood, right? You’re not obliged to spend your money on those things, but don’t imagine that your couple of hundred quid a month extra comes with no consequences. If you still want these services to be available, we have to use them!

I can’t bloody wait to go back to the office and buy expensive chicken and avocado sandwiches from Pret. And drinks after work. And bacon and egg sandwiches on a Friday morning.

I have spoken to a lot of friends about WFH. I have yet to meet anyone who wants to work 100% at home going forwards. I am going to do 2 days in the office from September. I don’t like being at home all the time, and need a change of scene. I miss casual office chats which are so helpful for gaining insight

I honestly feel like the team and company ethos has really suffered over the last few months.

Being together in the office, communicating, seeing each other, seeing people in the flesh makes for a better team, better ethos and working to a common goal. You can't replicate that by all WFH.

I am worried that too many of our staff are just wanting to WFH and can't see the bigger picture - and how their jobs are on the line if we can't deliver our services effectively.

@thecatsatonthewall it was more the well but whatevs.

I agree it's a huge switch & what my firm & DHs law firm are looking at. They are looking at reducing office floors in swanky landmark buildings &/or smaller hubs dotted about.

Depends on the firm but ours are saving big in terms of not subsiding the gym, restaurants, kiosks, bar, not having to have dentist etc on site, not having to pay for cabs home & take outs when working late, etc

Chomalunga I think it depends on the prevailing team/company ethos. I meet one of my colleagues who lives near me for lunch every fortnight and went for a drink with another one a couple of weeks ago. In general though I don't miss my team at all. It is made up of several cliques with very obvious favouritism from some managers towards certain individuals. There was also a lot of jealousy and infighting around promotions etc and constant drama. Very draining. I feel extremely relieved not to be working in the midst of all of that and my productivity not to mention mental health has improved as a result.

I do understand that a lot of people will struggle with WFH though and it's particularly tough for new starters. There are two new members in my team who started during lockdown and I will probably never meet them. I have no idea how they have managed with training and onboarding.

I have spoken to a lot of friends about WFH. I have yet to meet anyone who wants to work 100% at home going forwards. I am going to do 2 days in the office from September. I don’t like being at home all the time, and need a change of scene. I miss casual office chats which are so helpful for gaining insight

Conversely my colleagues are pretty much all in favour of 100% WFH

@ScrapThatThen

They are the ecosystem that services the offices and that has changed. A new ecosystem around home working will develop.

Exactly this. Offices will not die out completely as there will be some need, just less in aggregate. The trains were overcrowded. Lots of pollution.

Our local cafes are busy vs Pret next to my central London office boarded up. I like this. Pret sucks and is private equity owned anyway.

London did this to itself when it didnt accommodate people who work there to live in it.

Swings and roundabouts. Local smaller towns are doing well.

Hotdesking hubs are likely to pop up closer to homes so people can "go to work" locally. No more bedroom office/kitchen table uncomfortable working but equally no more long commute.

Buildings in city centres may be used for housing instead.

To think urban centres are static things is very short sighted indeed. There's been an element of movement towards home working and the 'doughnut effect' for some years. Covid has just accelerated this.

@Eastie77 Out of interest do you think working from home could lead to a reduction in bullying in general? I was wondering about that.

Loads of things to consider.

Shopping as we know it is massively different to what our parents and grandparents used to have. Shopping has become a pastime and obviously after what has happened it will likely shift more towards online purchases and maybe more considered.

Same with food and drinks. Our parents and grandparents would not be able to afford lunch and coffee daily, but nowadays this is a habit for loads.

There will be a socioeconomic shift as to how things will be done. Loads will be out of jobs, but I do think loads of new jobs will open up as things shift towards a new reality.

I am hoping for the best.

Many people have always wanted to WFH. It’s easier, more convenient and much, much cheaper. For average earners saving £20 a day on petrol / fares / bought lunches / coffees / after work drinks etc etc mounts up very quickly.

The bosses have always been the obstacle. Now, having experienced it for themselves, they now know that the technology is developed enough to make permanent WFH a realistic option.

WFH is the new normal and that isn’t going to change, even if a vaccine comes along before Christmas.

I think it depends to a degree how much your work is a part of your social life. I rarely socialised with my colleagues outside of work because I have a youngish family, I travel quite a distance to work by car, and I work Monday to Thursday, and most social events are on fridays, in a market town with, at best, an iffy night time offering. It doesn't bother me, I get on well with colleagues, but my friends are my out of work actual friends. I still have 'banter' online etc, but the days of work providing my social life are long gone. That said, I think a balance needs to be struck. I'd be happy to do 2 days in the office, 2 days WFH. But I'm not going to do a 60 mile round trip and fight over non existent parking spaces just because Boris says so.

I live in the burbs and the drive through line for Starbucks was down the street. And yes, there are fewer tables inside, but outside was as packed as it could be on the terrace.

They've also seen a boom in restos, cafes and buying locally, which is a good thing.

Hotdesking hubs are likely to pop up closer to homes so people can "go to work" locally

^^

Agree with this. Like air b n b, but for offices

I don't think the government have understood that this is a global trend, that both workers and employers have embraced it, that the vast majority see it as the future, with days in work being used in a targeted way. Of they realised that, they'd just let business do what it does best and adapt to the new demand outside of towns. Small local towns will be the winner here. Think of all the potential - people home earlier so free to go for a short drive on the evening and eat out, local shop demand for sandwich making ingredients going up, definitely coffee shops outside urban centres could do well now, just on a normal main road near housing. The demand won't go, it will move. The town is already dead imo.

In general though I don't miss my team at all. It is made up of several cliques with very obvious favouritism from some managers towards certain individuals. There was also a lot of jealousy and infighting around promotions etc and constant drama. Very draining. I feel extremely relieved not to be working in the midst of all of that

Well clearly your experience is going to cloud your judgement. The favouritism and opportunism is still happening you’re just not aware of it. Which is not ideal either.

Plenty of MN posters are already WFH a lot/all the time. And although they are singing from the rooftops about how productive it is, they seem to spend half their lives on here so it can’t be that great.

I’m so old that I started my office career alongside communal ashtrays, dictation machines and the typing pool, I can look back and see the benefits of sharing an office environment as I wanted to progress through my early career. It’s a real shame for young people at the moment.

I’ve been working back in my office two days a week and very much enjoying it, including less traffic on the road. I think we will end up with a better ratio of part home working part office working to suit people’s home lives.