Alcoholic friend

[Waypastmybedtime]

I’m after some advice please. I have a friend who is a functioning alcoholic and her husband is too. She is in complete denial. The state she gets in regularly, in front of her children, is awful. When in those states she has no idea what’s going on, what’s she’s saying etc. No way she can care for children (although they are tweens and young teenagers). Her children are always embarrassed and sad. I’ve tried speaking to her but get nowhere. They’re wealthy so I feel slipping through the net because from the outside they are a very respectable family. I’m worried for the children’s mental (and maybe the physical) wellbeing.
No point in saying speak to them, I’ve tried and failed and they will not acknowledge any problem.

I feel you are stuck between a rock and a hard place here OP. You sound like a kindhearted friend who only wants to help.
Could you get some advice from a support service such as Adfam? There are others too who can offer advice to family/friends of alcoholics. Have a search on google. It might be best to get advice from people who would have knowledge and experience in this situation. Before you take the step of going to social services which would be incredibly hard to do I’m sure.

My other concern is the fact they are drinking heavily and then driving the next day. They are not only putting themselves and their children at risk but other road users too. You should consider reporting them to the police each time you suspect this is happening. If they are found to be over the limit that action in itself might jolt them into having to deal with the alcoholism.
Again this would not be an easy thing to do but nobody else seems to be aware of what is happening or have turned their backs, so it is left to you to make these tough decisions for everyone’s welfare.

Google 'MASH thresholds' for your county. It may help you to make a decision about what to do.
I just hope that it's not a catastrophic incident, occuring because of the parents' alcohol consumption, that changes things for this family.

@Waypastmybedtime I do now but as a kid I didn't really get it. Now I'm older I wish some one did we spent all our childhood in the pub or at home with their friends round. Was a sad childhood really and so boring. Now we are older my parents think they've done a great job as we've all turned out "okay" however we more a less dragged ourselves up .

P*umperthepumper
*

I’m almost certain this post is bullshit. Absolutely nobody with experience of addiction would talk about ‘choosing bottles of wine over her daughter’s welfare’, definitely not someone who was drafted in to help that addict.
That's really insulting. ! I am a long term poster and not given to bullshit.

I was not 'drafted in to help an addict' I was asked to help support the mother with parenting her child.

At no point did I declare myself an expert in alcoholism . My choice of words to state that she 'chose bottles of wine' .. because that was my feeling after 3 years of support and often months of sobriety. Yet at some point, whilst sober, and completely aware of the consequences for herself and her child, she made a conscious decision to buy a bottle of wine and get back on that merry-go-round.

Yes I know it's a disease. However eventually the choice between 'my child' and 'alcohol' won. Which was extremely sad for both. However the innocent party was the one needing the help... and after exhausting every possible avenue SS made the right decision.
The bottom line is that the little girl was allowed occasional contact. Which she refused after only 8 months with her foster parents .

The bottom line is that the little girl was allowed occasional contact. Which she refused after only 8 months with her foster parents

Of course she did.

Continuing to repeat ‘choice’ makes me think you need ‘more training’ in addiction. You know nothing.

Thank you. Rock and hard place sounds exactly right!

Pumperthepumper
.. and you seem to require further training in reading comprehension.

As I have said. TWICE . I was a parenting support. I have no experience- nor do I desire to be an expert in addiction.

My interest was purely focussed on the child.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Pumperthepumper .. and you seem to require further training in reading comprehension.

As I have said. TWICE . I was a parenting support. I have no experience- nor do I desire to be an expert in addiction.

My interest was purely focussed on the child.

You were there to help an addict with her parenting and you spent the time judging her for her addiction?

Where did you find this job? Also, what kind of child protection do they have when they update the parent’s helper on the child eight months into foster care? Do you feel you were the right person to help this woman?

If you think the children are being affected by neglect then you should contact SS or child protection/welfare lead at their school.

If your concern is more about your friends health can you encourage them to seek medical advice?

OP, what a situation to be in. I feel for everyone involved, especially the kids. I met a young girl whose mum was a functioning alcoholic at a Christmas dinner and she was so sad. Fast forward a few years and I know a little of how she feels - my Dad is an alcoholic now.

I bought him this book, the Easy Way to Control Alcohol, and ended up reading it myself. It made me confront my own drinking (not alcoholism but an endless cycle of cutting down and creeping up). Then I bought another book, This Naked Mind by Annie Grace, and it made me give up booze completely.

Annie Grace sounds a lot like your friend - a high-functioning, hard worker who knocked back far too much white wine every night. Your friend may be able to relate to the book because of that. Even if she denies she has a problem, she knows deep down. Could you buy her the book (or similar) and give it to her without her losing her rag at you?

I know you said they're in denial. But have you talked to them about it? Really given them home truths? Admittedly I'm talking from a position of total ignorance about this sort of thing, but would that be a total dead end?

I would love to be able to buy the book but unfortunately she is really aggressive when confronted about it. Best for of defence for her is attack on this issue.

I have tried but am met with complete denial, a little aggression and a huge desire to change the subject. I know I’m important to her but her drink is more important so I’m pretty confident I would just lose her friendship and no good will have come from it. Many of her friends have deserted her, although she thinks the problem is with them and not her drinking. She thinks she’s fun to be with around after a few drinks but she’s not, she’s a nightmare. If I do that the kids will literally have no one else.

Pumpedthepumper I have Sc clearance , if you care to look up the levels of security clearance (not to mention my previous posts where I have NEVER name changed... ).
.. and I say again for the THIRD time.. I was there in a Voluntary position as a parent support ..

Nevertheless.. you think after 8yts of SS assistance trying to make it work .. that THE CHILD, should live with a drunk , incapable parent ? ??

One night, she REALLY wanted to go go to Brownies .. because they were doing an Easter egg hunt (she had only been twice because mum had been to drunk to take her ) ... she phoned me.. I took her and picked her up.. I asked her had she had fun ? She said yes except mummy would be cross and poorly..

And YoU would say that's acceptable???

I am an Alcoholic,17 years sober.

Absolutely nothing you can do about the drinking,but report it if you think the children are in danger.

@yawnsvillex

I am the child of an alcoholic parent.

Had someone called SS many years ago I would've likely gone into care - this would've been devastating.

My parent got help in the end, but had I been taken away it would've been awful.

Be very careful about the overall impact. Do those children really want to be taken away from their parents? You could make matters worse.

I'm glad you said this. It was exactly what I was thinking

And YoU would say that's acceptable???

No, I would say you shouldn’t have been working with an addict if you can’t suspend your judgement. And obviously you’d agree with that because you failed to help her.

Why would you volunteer to help someone you sneer at?

@Pumperthepumper as someone who has an alcoholic parent and who has struggled with addiction myself, I think your approach is a bit one-sided. Compassion for addicts is an inportant component of treating addiction but that doesn't absolve them completely of all personal responsibility, especially when children are involved.

OP in that case you ought to record her at her worst as a PP has mentioned. Then send the video to her. She is harming her kids, she needs a metaphorical bucket of cold water in her face.

It's hard to know at what point continuing a relationship with an alcoholic becomes enabling but obviously this is resting heavy on your conscience. You need to be prepared to sacrifice the friendship for the good of your friend and her children.

What's the DH's role in all this? It sounds as though they are somewhat co-dependent. Do you suspect one partner is driving the drinking more than the other?

[quote msflibble]@Pumperthepumper as someone who has an alcoholic parent and who has struggled with addiction myself, I think your approach is a bit one-sided. Compassion for addicts is an inportant component of treating addiction but that doesn't absolve them completely of all personal responsibility, especially when children are involved.[/quote]
I didn’t say it did. I said if you can’t suspend your judgement you shouldn’t be working with an addict. You can’t talk about alcoholism being a ‘disease’ then judge that person for that disease.

You said the children are older, have you spoken to them about how you can support them?

Oh dear PumperPumper this has struck a raw nerve with you hasn't it. ? I am sorry if you or someone close to you has suffered with addiction.

However - as msflibble rightly says.. being an addict does not excuse you from trying not to be an addict.

It's not a justification for not feeding a child of 5 for two days.. until she was found in the next door neighbours garden eating the crusts put out for the birds . Your attitude seems to be that getting social services involved would be a bad thing !

How on earth could you think like that ? What was the neighbour meant to do ?

It seems in your world she should of said ... 'oh well - that's ok then because mummy got so smashed again yesterday , so could t feed you. .. and now can't wake up to take you to school ... don't make a fuss child. You need to understand, 'Mummy is an alcoholic' .. just wait for her to sober up. Go and play at someone else's house until she comes to.. then you can go home and go through the same thing again ..

Thank god that didn't happen. And despite years and years of 'sympathy' .. NONE of it benefited the child.
Once again. I am a volunteer parent support for a charity in the mould of 'surestart' out side of my full time employment. I am not and have no desire to be an addiction worker.

Oh dear PumperPumper this has struck a raw nerve with you hasn't it. ? I am sorry if you or someone close to you has suffered with addiction.

It has struck a nerve, yes. Are you really sorry? You’re the one who came on this thread with your own experience - a bullshit story full of kind people who ‘helped’ an addict so badly that her child was taken away. But luckily! the child was taken to a foster utopia and decided she didn’t want her nasty mother, with her ‘choices’.

However - as msflibble rightly says.. being an addict does not excuse you from trying not to be an addict.

When did I say that? I said the help for addicts in society is garbage, which you’ve proved.

It's not a justification for not feeding a child of 5 for two days.. until she was found in the next door neighbours garden eating the crusts put out for the birds . Your attitude seems to be that getting social services involved would be a bad thing !

Again, you seem to be struggling with this - you failed that child. You were so keen to point the finger at her mother and her ‘choices’ that the end result - a child unable to be with her selfish, chaotic mother - was the cherry on the cake for your tale of heroism. Thank god for people like you who can pat yourself on the back for not making bad ‘choices’ and who can use this information about a vulnerable child to finger-point at addiction.

What does your child safety training say about protecting the privacy of the children you volunteer with? How nice for you that you’re allowed to discuss their very personal circumstances on the Internet to paint yourself in a good light.

I am the child of a single parent alcoholic. My entire childhood was stolen by alcohol. It started much the way OP has described, drinking on an evening however, this started spilling into mornings, then all day. Eventually my parent lost their job, we had no gas, no electricity and no food. Even at this point social services didn't remove us from the situation. They instead offered my parent lots of support, referred myself and siblings to Young Carers for a break. School was amazing in that teachers made sure we had food and funded talking therapy.

What I am trying to get at is that in my experience social services do not remove children as a first step but offer support for the whole family. If OP is not comfortable in contacting SS I would really raise the issue with the children's school so they can offer them support or someone to talk to. Unfortunately my story doesn't have a happy ending but I still think that if social services were not involved the situation would have been much worse.

They both enable each other. I could get videoing but I feel recently the drinking is becoming a lot more secretive because people have commented etc.