Alcoholic friend

[Waypastmybedtime]

I’m after some advice please. I have a friend who is a functioning alcoholic and her husband is too. She is in complete denial. The state she gets in regularly, in front of her children, is awful. When in those states she has no idea what’s going on, what’s she’s saying etc. No way she can care for children (although they are tweens and young teenagers). Her children are always embarrassed and sad. I’ve tried speaking to her but get nowhere. They’re wealthy so I feel slipping through the net because from the outside they are a very respectable family. I’m worried for the children’s mental (and maybe the physical) wellbeing.
No point in saying speak to them, I’ve tried and failed and they will not acknowledge any problem.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@lughnasadh

I'm with *@yawnsvillex*.

People so very often assume they know what is best/right/ socially acceptable.

For the child involved, it is actually often beter that they stay where they are.

The common response is 'report, SS, , safeguauarding', but if you actually listen to the children involved, and in fact their social workers, avoidng care proceedings is actually the way of least harm.

Have anyof you read 'The Primal Wound'?

Whatever the common, kneejerk response may be, the reality is different. Painfully, and really so.

What on Earth makes you or anyone else assume that care proceedings will ever be considered in this case?
You are aware that social workers don't only take children into care, yes?

[Apolloanddaphne]

In my experience the thing that is likely to make the family come to the attention of SS is that something will happen. It could be they are caught drunk driving, one of the children comes to harm whilst in their care but they are unable to respond, they themselves physically harm one of the children or there is domestic violence between the pair. Otherwise they will probably continue to fly under the radar.

[lughnasadh]

@CodenameVillanelle , absolutely.

But the very act of SS intrusion in to the lives of those children can alter their perspective of family, security, and an outward looking perspective. From the inside, I can tell you then outward interferance can totally mess a family up. Whereas without it, they can adapt.

[Nicelunch25]

I am an alcoholic in recovery for over 4 and a half years. I didn't have social services involvement but that's what it takes to help a lot of alcoholics reach the rock bottom they need to be at to get help. I'd say go to social services. It only gets worse for the kids. I was "high bottom" and no one knew how bad things were but I was very emotionally disconnected from my children. I bought them stuff and took them to activities but if they'd been having any sort of emotional difficulty I wasn't there for them. I now have an amazing relationship with them. Being in recovery has made me a much better mother. Social services will do everything they can to keep the kids with the parents. You doing stuff although well intentioned and probably giving the kids respite is kind of enabling. You really have to give the kids a voice.

[Waypastmybedtime]

Each

[Apolloanddaphne]

If they are drinking 2/3 bottles a night each then they are almost certainly over the limit if they are driving to work the next morning. It will also be having a significant effect on their health. Do you ever see them on nights they don't drink? Do they struggle with this?

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

I worked as a befriender to a lady who was an alcoholic, trying to bring up a child. Social services were AMAZING.. they were involved from when the child was 2 . I met her when she was 5.
Social services (from my lay-persons experience) went out of their way to try everything possible to keep the child and mother together. Support packages, school involvement, home help, me (as someone for the mum to talk to about parenting).. every possible thing was done.
The mum would engage, stop drinking.. then lie, lie and lie again. Which I know is one of the biggest issues with this disease.
Ultimately she chose bottles of wine above her daughter's welfare.. and eventually- purely (and rightly) in the interest of the child she was removed.

This happened when she was 8.

The idea that Social services would swoop in and remove children based on a single Referal is just nonsense.

The child is flourishing. Has been in long term foster care for 5 years. With parents who adore her and are really there for her.

OP. You sound kind. Please make that referral.

[SBTLove]

@CodenameVillanelle
Thank you for a voice of reason here.
Everyone assumes the kids will be removed by SS, I’m actually disgusted by the pp saying never report, a forum
of mother’s and it’s best ignore kids being neglected 😡

[stophuggingme]

You are potentially saving the parents as well as more importantly the children if you act on this.

They are breaking the law already by bring drunk in charge of a child
Never mind all the other things that could happen: not bring fully in the ball if one of the children were ill, there was an accident, they will be over the limit when they drive the next day so there are a number of potentially awful scenarios that could unfold.

It will be harming the children indirectly perhaps, but who know if not more already. At thirteen I would have known and been very distressed if my parents were getting bladdered downstairs on a nightly basis. Little children will br frightened.

No, you have to do something.

[stophuggingme]

Sorry I’m feeding a wriggly toddler then typos are his fault

[Pumperthepumper]

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

I worked as a befriender to a lady who was an alcoholic, trying to bring up a child. Social services were AMAZING.. they were involved from when the child was 2 . I met her when she was 5.
Social services (from my lay-persons experience) went out of their way to try everything possible to keep the child and mother together. Support packages, school involvement, home help, me (as someone for the mum to talk to about parenting).. every possible thing was done.
The mum would engage, stop drinking.. then lie, lie and lie again. Which I know is one of the biggest issues with this disease.
Ultimately she chose bottles of wine above her daughter's welfare.. and eventually- purely (and rightly) in the interest of the child she was removed.

This happened when she was 8.

The idea that Social services would swoop in and remove children based on a single Referal is just nonsense.

The child is flourishing. Has been in long term foster care for 5 years. With parents who adore her and are really there for her.

OP. You sound kind. Please make that referral.

I’m almost certain this post is bullshit. Absolutely nobody with experience of addiction would talk about ‘choosing bottles of wine over her daughter’s welfare’, definitely not someone who was drafted in to help that addict.

Children want to be with their parents, regardless of how shit those parents are. Social services are a poor solution to a comprehensive, free, addiction therapy - and the only way we will get that in our society is if people stop talking about addicts having a ‘choice’.

[AlternateName]

The fact that this is a "nice", affluent family does not mean the children aren't at risk or that the parents' behaviour should be overlooked. Social workers get involved with people from all walks of life, as I am sure @CodenameVillanelle can confirm. The common factor is children's welfare and safety, not how much their houses are worth.

[SBTLove]

@Pumperthepumper
In an ideal world they skip off to therapy, do you know how difficult it is to get an addict to engage? how long it takes? meanwhile the child is suffering.
Get your head out the clouds.

[Pumperthepumper]

[quote SBTLove]@Pumperthepumper
In an ideal world they skip off to therapy, do you know how difficult it is to get an addict to engage? how long it takes? meanwhile the child is suffering.
Get your head out the clouds.[/quote]
Oh I know, believe me. That’s my point, thats why therapy needs to be much, much easier to access.

Painting foster care as a utopia for a child of an addict is ridiculous.

[lughnasadh]

People don't want to listen to the children.

They assume the children involved don't know best.
That's wrong. Childen taken in to care is an awful scenario, as many social workers will tell you.

It isn't all wonderful foster families, and a better place.

The voices of the children shouldnt be over ridden. As I can attest.

[SBTLove]

@Pumperthepumper
Involving SS doesn’t mean the kids get removed, they can give support and help
the parents and kids.

[Pumperthepumper]

[quote SBTLove]@Pumperthepumper
Involving SS doesn’t mean the kids get removed, they can give support and help
the parents and kids.[/quote]
I’m not the one who said they did.

[Waypastmybedtime]

Thanks everyone for your constructive advice. I am going to read again and have a think about what to do now.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@AlternateName

The fact that this is a "nice", affluent family does not mean the children aren't at risk or that the parents' behaviour should be overlooked. Social workers get involved with people from all walks of life, as I am sure *@CodenameVillanelle* can confirm. The common factor is children's welfare and safety, not how much their houses are worth.

Absolutely.
The difference IME between the wealthy alcoholic parents and the poor ones is that the wealthy ones can pay nannies and get private therapy and rehab. We don't ignore them because they are rich, but they often have less intervention because of their money, being perfectly honest.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@lughnasadh

People don't want to listen to the children.

They assume the children involved don't know best.
That's wrong. Childen taken in to care is an awful scenario, as many social workers will tell you.

It isn't all wonderful foster families, and a better place.

The voices of the children shouldnt be over ridden. As I can attest.

This is a red herring. It's extremely unlikely that these children would be taken into care.

[Waypastmybedtime]

I think it’s easier to hide. I don’t think private schools look out for or expect it to happen. My worry is I bring attention to the problem, then manage to look like great parents and the drinking gets worse. Meanwhile they work out it was me, cut me off and there’s no one looking out for the kids.

[stophuggingme]

I think that poverty and vulnerability are looked down upon in society and families from these demographics are often singled out as the only places where abuse and mistakes and poor choices occur.
Wealth or being comfortably off, being educated and articulate seems to function as some sort of panacea in some people’s eyes.
It’s as if they are impervious to being forced to face the sorts of consequences a poor couple who drank to oblivion every night but had three young children every night would be forced to face.

It alarms me that because a child is dropped off to school in a nice car, is well dressed, goes on holiday lots and wants for nothing is less at risk in the scenario we are talking about here.

The amount of flossing over and explaining away or even never been scrutinised because of this is doing children form these families a terrible disservice. They are being failed as much as any other, in this context. If not more.

[stophuggingme]

@Waypastmybedtime
I can see the dilemma you feel you are faced with.
It is better to lose their friendship - which is entirely as a result of their life choices not yours - then run the gauntlet of what if something happens to one of these children or someone else who is totally innocent. You will not be responsible but it will chip away at you wondering if that could have been stopped if only you’d acted on your concerns.

Families like this couple have a lot to lose so perhaps this will be a massive wake up call.

[Waypastmybedtime]

I completely agree. They have never faces scrutiny. Other friends have simply had enough and stopped speaking and seeing them. Schools have never noticed anything is wrong, although I’m not sure how they would.

[Waypastmybedtime]

I agree. I don’t feel the friendship is more important than the children at all, I’m just not 100% sure what the best thing for the children is. I know I have to act because I think lockdown has made the situation worse, I also think many things are hidden from me even!