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Original poster

Stonehaven train derailment

88 replies

namechanged0202 · 12/08/2020 12:04

Anyone else watching? We live about 40 miles north . Can’t quite believe it . My parents used to live in the fields directly above Carmont signal station about 35 years ago and remember the weather causing problems for the line even back then . Very, very steep hills on both sides .

Looks very bad from what’s being said online/on rolling news . Fields are just packed with emergency vehicles/choppers . Just horrific .

OP posts:
Gingernaut · 12/08/2020 17:29

The latest news from Radio 4 PM was that the train encountered flooding, radioed for advice, was told to reverse and change to an adjacent line.

It was the adjacent line which had the landslide.

However, the train was travelling at some considerable speed and the guy interviewed on the programme stated that shouldn't have happened.

When travelling on alternate lines, trains must travel slowly.

entertainmentoverdose.co.uk/news/stonehaven-mystery-rail-detectives-hurry-to-find-real-root-cause-of-accident-with-key-technique-161239.html

blacktop · 12/08/2020 17:35

The BBC person quoted should be ashamed of himself. The language used is accusatory and not a single investigation has come to a conclusion as yet.

lyralalala · 12/08/2020 18:10

[quote Gingernaut]The latest news from Radio 4 PM was that the train encountered flooding, radioed for advice, was told to reverse and change to an adjacent line.

It was the adjacent line which had the landslide.

However, the train was travelling at some considerable speed and the guy interviewed on the programme stated that shouldn't have happened.

When travelling on alternate lines, trains must travel slowly.

entertainmentoverdose.co.uk/news/stonehaven-mystery-rail-detectives-hurry-to-find-real-root-cause-of-accident-with-key-technique-161239.html[/quote]
How on earth does the guy being interviewed know what speed the train was going at?

It can't have been going that fast surely or it wouldn't still be 20 miles from aberdeen 3 hours+ after it left

That's the kind of speculation that is just casting blame when the investigation hasn't even begun yet

tentative3 · 12/08/2020 18:22

The accounts I have read from rail staff are that it was travelling on the 'right' line at the time of the incident (after crossing over from the wrong direction move). There is a lot, some basic and some less so, that journalists have got wrong in the initial reports and whilst it may be understandable that they don't know the ins and outs no one should even be suggesting blame without the full facts. Shame on the person interviewed and website for reporting it

lyralalala · 12/08/2020 18:34

Some of the reporting has been awful. There was one on the radio earlier who was commenting on the "large delay" between the train leaving at 6.30 and being "found" at 9.40. They were even speculating that a hillwalker might have "come across" the train.

As if somehow Scotrail had misplaced it for nigh on 3 hours without noticing. Totally irresponsible.

Jargo · 12/08/2020 18:49

I do wonder what happened with the delay though. Police Scotland said earlier they were not notified until 9.40ish.

Also, I wonder who filmed the flooding footage and whether it was the train driver as he swapped from front (that became rear) to rear (that became front) driving compartments.

Just so incredibly sad though for everyone involved.

tentative3 · 12/08/2020 19:02

I obviously don't know the full ins and outs but the train was travelling on one line and unable to proceed any further due to a landslide. If that train discovered the land slip, or another had only recently reported it, it would take some time for the incident to be reported and assessed and a decision made to send the train back on the line it had been travelling on. It would have been travelling at reduced speed while making this wrong direction move, and then it crossed over to the 'right' line. All this has to be discussed and agreed between the train operator and network rail the signaller has to issue instructions and the driver acknowledge and carry them out. It may also have been travelling at reduced speed towards the first landslip either due to being cautioned/asked to examine the line or possibly a blanket speed restriction for weather conditions.

Depending on how the incident itself unfolded it may have taken some time for anyone to be able to report it, both the driver and guard sadly died and depending on what the roles were of the other crew and also what exactly survived the incident in terms of on train equipment, it may not have been possible to use the emergency systems. It seems very likely the survivors would have lost mobile phones during the derailment too.

I can see why it seems odd to those outside the railway.

blacktop · 12/08/2020 19:06

The time delay can mainly be attributed to coming up against a problem and having to switch power car to move back up, wait for signalling etc.

itsgettingweird · 12/08/2020 19:10

The pictures Sad how terrifying for everyone on board.

The poor driver knowing what was happening and not being able to stop it.

lyralalala · 12/08/2020 19:15

@tentative3 I get that it would have been chaotic. My point was more about the suggestion that Scotrail had lost the train for 3 hours being ludicrous.

Delays, then then having to stop, time to change ends etc will account for it. Not nobody noticing that a train didn’t arrive at any stations beyond Stonehaven - which was the suggestion. That no one noticed until after it was due into Glasgow.

It was ridiculous reporting

Dorobie · 12/08/2020 19:18

The aerial footage is shocking... I wasn’t expecting it to be that bad!

EngTech · 12/08/2020 19:19

Thoughts are with the family 😔

The RAIB will be investigating this and produce a report in due course

Anything else is speculation

tentative3 · 12/08/2020 19:23

@lyralalala sorry, my fault for speed reading.

britINscotland · 12/08/2020 19:27

if it wasn't for lockdown there would be a LOT more people on that train. Very sad for all involved. Scotrail should quite rightly be criticised for allowing trains on that route in such bad weather.

PiggyPlumPie · 12/08/2020 19:33

It's just up the road from us. As l understand it, the train was actually held at Stonehaven station for about three hours due to the weather.

It was atrocious this morning up until about 9 am. By 11, you wouldn't have known there was any rain at ours although the road was virtually a river at 8.

Tragic day Sad

PerkingFaintly · 12/08/2020 21:23

@Dorobie

The aerial footage is shocking... I wasn’t expecting it to be that bad!
It's horrible, isn't it?

Thank heavens for the mercy of an almost empty train. It's awful enough that three people have died; the toll on a packed service doesn't bear thinking about. (I remember the Ladbroke Grove crash all too well.)

BashfulClam · 12/08/2020 21:27

@britINscotland

if it wasn't for lockdown there would be a LOT more people on that train. Very sad for all involved. Scotrail should quite rightly be criticised for allowing trains on that route in such bad weather.
It’s something I find odd as ScotRail are usually overly cautious in bad weather (23 years experience of using the abysmal service!). I once got turfed off a train as they were concerned it would not make it along the best of the track as it goes uphill towards East Kilbride and it was really cold.
Indoctro · 12/08/2020 21:28

It's so sad and yes a blessing that train was almost empty. It would normally be pretty busy. So horrendous to all the family's involved

The weather this morning was absolutely shocking, flooding like I've never seen before.

DdraigGoch · 12/08/2020 22:05

@britINscotland

if it wasn't for lockdown there would be a LOT more people on that train. Very sad for all involved. Scotrail should quite rightly be criticised for allowing trains on that route in such bad weather.
Network Rail make the decisions on line opening. Major slips like these are mercifully very rare.

If they had made the decision to close the line as a precaution, I can bet that people would be abusing staff because of the disruption "elf and safety gone mad, yadda, yadda..."

LaurieSchafferIsAllBitterNow · 12/08/2020 22:05

i was wondering if it had been held somewhere as they were all very insistent it was the 6.38 train

pretty certain Perth station was closed to flooding right from the get go this morning so how they thought the train would ever get to Glasgow I don't know.

Actually looked back and in the local thread I was following someone had screen shot a tweet posted at 8.30 from Scotrail saying they were unable to run trains in either direction between the following stations
Edinburgh-Fife
Edinburgh to GQS via Falkirk High andGrahamston
Edinburgh/Glasgow -Dunblane
Edinburgh-WestCalder
Aberdeen-Edinburgh/Glasgow
Aberdeen-Dyce
Inverness-Perth

It's all just too awful.

lyralalala · 12/08/2020 22:11

i was wondering if it had been held somewhere as they were all very insistent it was the 6.38 train

It was that train. It left late. Encountered a slip so had to hold and get permission to go back. That takes time. As does changing ends, changing lines etc. Then it encountered the second slip.

user1497207191 · 12/08/2020 23:41

[quote Gingernaut]The latest news from Radio 4 PM was that the train encountered flooding, radioed for advice, was told to reverse and change to an adjacent line.

It was the adjacent line which had the landslide.

However, the train was travelling at some considerable speed and the guy interviewed on the programme stated that shouldn't have happened.

When travelling on alternate lines, trains must travel slowly.

entertainmentoverdose.co.uk/news/stonehaven-mystery-rail-detectives-hurry-to-find-real-root-cause-of-accident-with-key-technique-161239.html[/quote]
Total rubbish. It was travelling back to where it started on the other line, i.e the correct line for the opposite direction. Once it had moved onto the other line it could go at full normal linespeed.

TitianaTitsling · 12/08/2020 23:45

Am so angry at bloody daily record who doorstepped the driver's wife hours after it happened then report 'she didn't want to talk.

lyralalala · 12/08/2020 23:54

@TitianaTitsling

Am so angry at bloody daily record who doorstepped the driver's wife hours after it happened then report 'she didn't want to talk.
That is absolutely hideous.

Doesn't surprise me though. My cousin lived next door to a girl who lost her Dad in the Clutha crash. They (and one of the news channel reporters) sat on the woman's doorstep for hours waiting on her to come home so that they could ask her for a comment. Absolute bastards.

LoveLastMinutesAndLostEvenings · 13/08/2020 00:05

They doorstepped a new widow? That's fucking disgraceful!

I know it is all speculation at the moment, but what I really don't understand is how the train went back up the same track it came down from and there was a landslide. Did it happen after the train had passed it the first time?

It's so awful, the poor people who died, they just got up this morning to get on with their day and now they have gone. If the line was dangerous - and I don't just mean this line, I mean any line after severe weather - what checks are there in place to make sure they are safe to pass?