Absolutely at the end of my tether. Dog out of control, including biting. Please help

[Mojitoonthebeach]

Hi,

I already have this running in the Doghouse, but thought I'd also post here for traffic.

We have 2 dogs. One is a rescue who we've had for 18 months and one lab x cocker, who we've had from a puppy.

The rescue is an absolute dream and settled in very well. Asserted herself with our lab and they both know where they stand with each other. They're both almost 4.

Our lab x is an absolutely beautiful dog. She's incredibly clever andcanbe lovely. Generally though, she is an absolute nightmare and I don't know what to do anymore.

She barks A LOT. Sometimes at us, with a warning growl beforehand. She digs up the garden in a frenzied manner, when she races around out of control. She learns new tricks very easily and does get certain commands, but if I told her to go to her bed, if she didn't want to, she wouldn't. I feel like she believes she is in charge.

Worst of all, she has bitten on several occasions and her bite is very hard. Often breaking the skin and leaving a bruise, sometimes drawing blood. That has always been out of fear/being startled, so we can keep that under control, but still, it's very upsetting. Her trigger is having her collar grabbed or if she is asleep and you went to grab something from underneath her. A remote for example, on the days that she was allowed on the sofa for a cuddle. We've since stopped allowing this, as it's just too risky. She is allowed up, but not on the same sofa that we are on.

We also have a cat and they can't be near each other. If she sees her in the garden, she will absolutely lose her mind and almost squeal to get out. She has already scratched up our new internal door to pieces.

Basically she's just making our daily lives incredibly difficult and I hate to say, as much as we love her, we're just not enjoying her.

The last time she bit was the other day. My dp was trying to keep her away from our cat (ongoing daily battle) and she grabbed her collar and straight away she bit and hard. Dp knew she shouldn't have grabbed her collar, but it was instinct to keep her away from our cat.

We have had a dog behaviourist in who basically said that we need to concentrate mostly on her mental stimulation, which we do, but sometimes we would just like to sit in the garden and relax and not have to constantly keep her entertained with new tricks etc. If we don't, we get barked or growled at. It's also not good for our neighbours, although I hope they can hear that we are working on it and not just letting her crack on and bark on a loop.

Please, any advice would be very much appreciated. We are losing our minds tbh.

TIA

How much exercise does she get op ?

My first thoughts on this would be to let her know where her place is in the pecking order.

Do not allow her on the sofa/bed or anywhere that you sit.

Make sure she never walks into a room in front of you. Keep her down.
Feed the other dog first and her second.

Do not reward her for barking or demanding attention. If she does this. Ignore her. If it continues put her in a cage for a spell only allowing her out when you are ready.

She has got above herself and you have allowed it to happen so now she is unsociable and nasty. Rein it in. She needs to know her place in the pecking order and right now she wants to be top dog over you.

Forgot to say - do reward good behaviour but do not accept bad behaviour at all.

@GertrudeCB, she is walked daily. 30 minutes to an hour, but we also have a large garden for her to run around in/destroy.

Our behaviourist told us that if we just focused on physical exercise, then we could be making a rod for our own backs by creating a sort of dog athlete. We were quite surprised by this and thought she would tell us to take her out for several long walks a day, but actually I do understand her thinking. Whenever we have taken her for longer, more regular walks, it makes no difference whatsoever. She has endless energy and never tires. The more exercise she has, the more she needs.

How much exercise does she get?

The pecking order stuff I'm afraid is a load of bollocks and won't make any difference.

It sounds like collar touching is a massive trigger for her so it's unsurprising what happened. The more it goes on, the more she'll keep doing it as well.

This dog is a massive liability. How can you have friends or family around? Do you plan on having children? Your neighbours are probably going mad with the barking.

What does your vet say?

Is she food orientated. I would do some gentle touching around the neck and treat lots. Then move onto touching the collar with treats then holding the collar. May take a while. To get her used to it?!’n

It's discipline she needs.

She needs more walking and you need to do a lot of reading about dog behaviour

@OliviaBenson and @Anordinarymum, the
"pecking order" idea does seem to divide the crowd somewhat.

My mum insists that's what it is and thinks that it's because there is no man in the house I would like to completely disagree, as do does, but the fact is, she does seem better behaved around men.

@Aquamarine1029, well with difficulty. I have to set rules and obviously I would never leave our dog alone with a dc. She doesn't come across as aggressive at all. You would look at her and think she was a lovely, sweet natured, cuddly dog....and she can be. But no, I can't just have people over and relax.

I already have a teen dd. She has never bitten her, but again, I would never leave them one together and dd is fully aware of the rules/triggers.

@frankie001, sort of. That's how we get her to learn tricks, but she's definitely more spaniel than lab in the food department. I.e, she wouldn't just eat anything. I could try that though - thank you.

Not sure if you have read my replies OP?

Have you considered a second opinion from a different behaviourist?
Has she always been like this or is it a more recent change/related to the adopted dog?
Did she ever experience any trauma regarding her collar being pulled when she was young?

The biting and collar need working on and a lot of reading on. What did the behaviourist say about working on that?

The barking, you say sometimes at you? What else is he barking at (outside usual/expected alerts)? We should make time to mentally stimulate our dogs as well as physically, but there should also be down time when our dogs realise we are not playing/it's human down time/work time. It sounds like it could be partly demand barking to me, and I can't help thinking that if every time he barks you dive into a game, you're essentially feeding in to that? But I'm not an expert at all. I made my own mistake with demand barking and effectively taught it without realising I was. I'm now having to undo that, which is working, slowly.

*she not he. Sorry!

My advice would be to join the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support. They are all highly qualified behaviourists.

The idea of dominance and hierarchy for dogs has been debunked many years ago. Discipline etc will likely make the situation worse. I would also think you will get better answers from The Doghouse post.

If she gets overexcited ignore her or shut her in another room until she's calm (even for a second at first). Strict routine and firm boundaries are great for a highly strung dog. More exercise just gives you a fitter crazy dog, unless you spend dawn to dusk out they'll still go crazy at home. Make her sit and wait before food, sit calmly at doors until she's told to go in/out etc so you build up habits of impulse control and calm patience. Be consistent and don't give in when she refuses.

If she bites do you yelp like you're being murdered and ignore her/ turn away? It works for our "puppy". You'll have to desensitize her to being touched/ having hands near. Work up to it slowly and get behaviour advice.

That sounds like very little walking time to me - our dog is tiny and needs a minimum of 1 hour walk a day, plus cognitive exercises every day - any less than that will trigger barking/destructive behaviour.

Her trigger is having her collar grabbed or if she is asleep and you went to grab something from underneath her

I had a rescue dog that was triggered when he was grabbed by the collar (he'd put his teeth on my hand) and I managed to train him out of it fairly simply. It was a case of building a positive association with being held by the collar, so I'd get hold of him gently (not grabbed) and give him a treat, and kept repeating it. Then once he was fine with that I'd up it so I could quickly grab his collar. It didn't take long and was simple to do.

The 2nd issue is a people problem not a dog problem. Waking a sleeping dog by touching them (even accidentally) is a bad idea as it can startle them. Just don't leave things where the dog will fall asleep.

Regarding her mental energy, have you tried things like teaching her to search for objects? It's a great game for them and once they've mastered it you can hide something and relax. Obviously there are things like stuffed Kongs and puzzle toys.

With the digging of the garden, you could try giving her her own patch where she's allowed to dig, like a sand pit with hidden goodies. If she digs anywhere else in the garden she's told not to and immediately taken to her digging pit and encouraged to do it there. I've not tried this but it was a tip from Dr Ian Dunbar.

Things like ignoring the command to go to her bed despite knowing the command can be improved. Because of the collar issue I'd suggest keeping a lead on her in the house, not to restrain her but so you have something safe to get hold of her with if need be. If she doesn't go to her bed when asked, take hold of the lead and calmly walk her to it. If she gets off her bed put her back, and do this every single time. She should get the message that it's pointless to keep moving off of it and hopefully stay there until you give the release command. If you don't use a release command I'd recommend doing so, eg "go to bed" means go to bed but doesn't give the dog any indication of how long for. Is it for 10 seconds or 10 minutes? If they don't know they'll make the decision themselves, which may or may not be when we want. So a command such as "OK" lets them know they can now do what they like, be that staying there or getting off. Works with all sorts of things and very useful for the "stay" command too.

"pecking order" idea does seem to divide the crowd somewhat.

It divides the crowd into people who are right, and people who are outdated and wrong.

I'd recommend In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw, it covers every aspect of dog behaviour and is genuinely interesting and helpful.

Pecking order is utter bollocks .
My 3 live together with equal status ,getting equal amounts of walks ,food and attention..
I don’t think I have ever Had grab my dogs collars ..I literally can’t think of a time I have grabbed them ,or grabbed something from under them.
I tend to think all dogs have the potential to bite in the wrong circumstances ,so it’s about Limiting the wrong circumstances.
I also treat my dogs with respect,in that I fully acknowledge they could bite ,no one can 100% say their dog would never bite in any situation.
So ,I trained my dogs with kindness ,and chicken in my pocket ,.they come on command,and recall is good out and about ,but I reward them ,so everytime they come when I call they get a bite of chicken or slice of mini sausage .
My middle dog is a rescue,and a min pin ,not noted for training,(he’s ill at the moment with a sore ear ,)he had no recall even in the home when we first got him..so we trained him with a huge long rope and chicken every time he came back to me .
We have stair gates to keep the dogs downstairs,but we do allow on sofas as they are family too.
I’ve lost track of where I was going with this reply now ,need to reread the op

Ah yes
Cocker is a working type dog,is it not? ...so she does need a lot of stimulation,
Is she / he getting 2 long walks a day..with plenty of time off lead chasing a ball ,getting throughly exhausted..?
Tackle exercise first ,a tired dog is an easier dog ,as they will sleep.
Your cat ...how did you introduce them?
Who was there first ,cat or dog .
Because that needs sorting out ,before there is an injury to one or the other .they need to be able to be in the same room and tolerate each other

My 3 dogs sleep all day ,they had hour and a half off lead running in a stream and fields this morning,then later a smaller pavement walk ..
But I have 3 dogs ,so I can’t risk them missing a walk as they would be snappy and wound up and irritated with each other

Toys ,I forgot ,we have a huge ,Huge amount of toys,fills a washing tub , ,we clear an area in the conservatory,and tip them out ,and we play with the dogs ,pulling on snakes ,just generally a crazy half hour ,the dogs love it ,my kids think I’m mad ,but it works they have a mad half hour and head back to sleep with a raw hide to chew on ...my dogs will go and choose a toy and bring it to us when they want to play .even my 10 year old ,old boy joins in the play ,so they do need toys ,they are not just for puppies

You’ve got a cross of 2 working breeds. I’ll say it brutally-she’s probably bored. Why wouldn’t you listen to your trainer? One of mine needs a job and is “naughty” if bored.

Better than grabbing her collar, leave a longline on her which you can tug gently to distract/break the focus when she fixates on the cat.

Ultimately, if you can’t deal with her, re-home. I’m not someone who thinks you should keep a dog if your circumstances aren’t right and you can’t make them right. It’s frustrating for you and unfair on the dog who sounds like she might be better in a working home.

I feel sorry for your poor cat.

30 minutes to an hour, once a day, doesn’t sound like nearly enough exercise.