Absolutely at the end of my tether. Dog out of control, including biting. Please help

[Mojitoonthebeach]

Hi,

I already have this running in the Doghouse, but thought I'd also post here for traffic.

We have 2 dogs. One is a rescue who we've had for 18 months and one lab x cocker, who we've had from a puppy.

The rescue is an absolute dream and settled in very well. Asserted herself with our lab and they both know where they stand with each other. They're both almost 4.

Our lab x is an absolutely beautiful dog. She's incredibly clever andcanbe lovely. Generally though, she is an absolute nightmare and I don't know what to do anymore.

She barks A LOT. Sometimes at us, with a warning growl beforehand. She digs up the garden in a frenzied manner, when she races around out of control. She learns new tricks very easily and does get certain commands, but if I told her to go to her bed, if she didn't want to, she wouldn't. I feel like she believes she is in charge.

Worst of all, she has bitten on several occasions and her bite is very hard. Often breaking the skin and leaving a bruise, sometimes drawing blood. That has always been out of fear/being startled, so we can keep that under control, but still, it's very upsetting. Her trigger is having her collar grabbed or if she is asleep and you went to grab something from underneath her. A remote for example, on the days that she was allowed on the sofa for a cuddle. We've since stopped allowing this, as it's just too risky. She is allowed up, but not on the same sofa that we are on.

We also have a cat and they can't be near each other. If she sees her in the garden, she will absolutely lose her mind and almost squeal to get out. She has already scratched up our new internal door to pieces.

Basically she's just making our daily lives incredibly difficult and I hate to say, as much as we love her, we're just not enjoying her.

The last time she bit was the other day. My dp was trying to keep her away from our cat (ongoing daily battle) and she grabbed her collar and straight away she bit and hard. Dp knew she shouldn't have grabbed her collar, but it was instinct to keep her away from our cat.

We have had a dog behaviourist in who basically said that we need to concentrate mostly on her mental stimulation, which we do, but sometimes we would just like to sit in the garden and relax and not have to constantly keep her entertained with new tricks etc. If we don't, we get barked or growled at. It's also not good for our neighbours, although I hope they can hear that we are working on it and not just letting her crack on and bark on a loop.

Please, any advice would be very much appreciated. We are losing our minds tbh.

TIA

Two walks needed, a playtime and maybe a bit of training / hid the treat thing/ scent work. Otherwise downtime even for working dogs is find.

I've trained my dog ( working cocker) to not get on the sofa, but he is allowed at my mums ( as he used to be allowed on mine.) When my mum comes over he hops up on my sofa. I say off and he looks at my mum. It makes me wonder if they do actually understand hierarchy?! Anyway some of the old bollocks dog training is good common sense things like you going first out of the door ( safety wise)

Plus my dog barks so much if my DH isn't home, deliveries, cars just stopping outside, someone waking past the house but is fine when he's home. He's not with DH, he's my dog so it isn't like DH is entertaining him.

You can get anti bark collars they spray citrus. I'm considering it, not ideal, but an idea.

Sorry, but whoever said that walking your dogs too much is just going to create a ‘dog athlete’ is talking rubbish. She’s already bouncing off the walls and out of control. 30-60 minutes walking a day for a mix of two high drive working breeds is pathetic. You can’t get a mix of working gun dogs and stick them in a house for 23 and a half hours a day. I’ve got bulldog and even he requires 2X 45 minute walks a day, mostly off the lead so he can run. The first thing you need to do is easily double the exercise. Then find a behaviourist who knows what they’re talking about for the rest of her problems

I used to be a dog walker. She's not getting nearly enough exercise. Try walking her two hours a day. I am pretty convinced you'll see a massive difference. My Scottie needs that much and is an edgy, grumpy nightmare if he doesn't get it.

She sounds stressed and bored.

A 30 minute walk doesn't sound like it's enough. Plus it's easy to think that because you have a large garden that running around in that will be enough, but external walks provide loads of additional stimuli that she won't get in your garden. Different sights, smells, people, sounds - all of this adds up into mental stimulation as well as physical. That said, there is a balance and physical exercise is not the sole treatment.

Cockers are intelligent and get bored easily. She sounds like she needs far more mental stimulation. Have a look at puzzle games and as a PP has suggested, hiding kings in the garden with treats in them will also help keep her occupied.

You need to do it all, OP!

Give her food in a Kong so she works at it.
Have a proper walk where she's off lead and can chase a ball. Wear her out.
Do a training session, scent work, hide and seek, commands.
Have a playtime slot.
Make a digging spot.
Do collar desensitisation work

Keep her on a harness or house lead so you don't need to touch her collar in haste.

More exercise just gives you a fitter crazy dog, unless you spend dawn to dusk out they'll still go crazy at home

I'm sorry but this is nonsense.

join the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support. They are qualified behaviourists who give advice for free.

ignore the outdated crap about dominance and discipline.

Thank you for all the advice so far.

I understand that it makes perfect sense to walk her more, but as I said up thread, we have tried that and it doesn't seem to make a difference in her behaviour, although we could definitely give it another go. Another restriction with that though is that she doesn't have any recall outdoors, so off lead walks, where she could kill the most energy, are limited to areas that are isolated and enclosed and we don't live close to any areas like that.

In terms of the cat, I don't think they'll ever get on. It's really sad. I would love them to be cuddled up in front of the fire together or at least walk past one another without all hell breaking loose! It certainly does make our lives very difficult, as we have to have a daily system, that doesn't always go smoothly.

The biting has never randomly happened. It has only ever been out of fear andwith the triggers already mentioned. If she had bitten out of the blue and with no explanation, then as absolutely devastated as we would be, we would have her pts.

Even just writing that has me tearing up. I can't bear it.

I do think she would be more suited in a working type home, but I also think she genuinely does love us. I don't want to give up on her.

That's not enough walking for that cross breed. Walking isn't just exercise, it's mental stimulation.

We revoked an aggressive dog. While I was heartbroken at the time with hindsight it was totally the right thing to do. He now lives in a quieter home with no kids, older more experienced owners, and another dog. He still has his moments and is not to be trusted but he is much better than with us. We simply couldn't be the owners he needed.

In the meantime, he does need more exercise and also maybe that could give more positive reinforcement than you can in the house with the cat etc

I have a tiny dog and she gets an hour a day and has access to outside all the time.
I know literally nothing about dog training.
So this might be really wrong but when mine was biting and when she jumps up etc... we use this pet corrector
Now we only have to show her the can and she behaves.
Anything is worth a try.
Unless someone who knows a thing a two thinks this is wrong????

If you were talking about 3 hour + of walking a day you might have a point with the ‘dog athlete’ thing. Less than an hour for a lab spaniel mix is just daft. I’d also aim for some of that exercise to be running, not walking. The dog can run while you ride a bike - humans can’t run fast enough! At home things like feeding with puzzle toys, using a Lickimat or filling a Kong Would help work off mental energy.

I’d take her collar off in the house so she can’t be grabbed by it and work on getting her happy to have it put on and taken off with treating and an associated word, but a qualified behaviourist would be your best bet. If she’s very sensitive to the collar have you tried a harness on her instead?

She sounds anxious and stressed. Although I agree to an extent that fitter dogs need more exercise, they do need a certain amount of freedom, stimulation and the opportunity to run off excess energy.

It sounds like she needs to build trust and respect in equal measures. Dogs generally want to please humans and, like children, feel safer and more secure with clear boundaries.

It probably does make sense to engage a different behaviourist. Ask your vet to recommend one.

I the meantime, work on some skills like basic recall, off lead heel walking (in your garder), making sure that you are in control of food and treats and doling them out in small doses for every bit of good behaviour you see.

www.amazon.co.uk/Springer-Leash-Let-RUN-Dogs-SPRINGER-moment/dp/B0017NM4OE?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

This allows a dog to be safely attached to a bike - it absorbs any pulling so you don’t get dragged into a bush if they see a squirrel.

@Anordinarymum you are talking about dominance theory. Even the person who came up with the idea now admits they were wrong.
OP I would want to work with a behaviourist.
If you train your dog to be so stupidly fit that it needs four hours running a day then it will be frustrated with less.
But allowing a dog the time and space to run and sniff and then engaging in brain games etc can help them be calmer.
Also look into resource guarding.
We have a cat. A longline on a harness would mean your dog couldn’t chase it. Teach a look at you response. See cat. Look to human for treat. Stairgates etc also invaluable.

Whilst you say more exercise hasn't helped in the past, it's worth considering this:

You're mostly walking on-lead due to recall issues for 30 mins. Does this tire you out?

Dogs have a cardiovascular capacity which is vastly superior to humans, so if it's not tiring you out it's probably not touching the sides for her.

Added to the exercise is the mental stimulation we all get from going out into new surroundings. This will also help to tire her mentally. So on balance I'd definitely be walking at least 2 X 1hr walks per day.

Re the behaviour, you've already has.lots of good advice on here. Although, tbh, if cat and dog loathe each other that much then at least one of them isn't happy and may be better off.being regimes?

regimes

Oh bloody hell. Rehomed!!

@CandidaAlbicans2 that's exactly what we did.
Our girl was a pup and didn't like being touched near her neck, never bit but just resistant.

We started by touching her neck gently whilst giving treats. She very quickly associated her collar being held with good things.

A course of dog training classes would teach her recall, with the benefit that these are usually held in a secure field. Google and see what's in your area.

Cracking recall would help with the exercise as she could run around and burn off a lot of physical and mental energy - especially if you are throwing balls etc., as this engages her brain as well as her legs!

Do not use pet corrector- they should be banned. They can make things worse, not better.

@hellsbellsmelons pet correctors are not a good training tool. They work by frightening the dog - so the dog has a negative association with doing something - ore more commonly, becomes frightened of the can (which is why your dog reacts the way she does, she's scared of the can).

It's the canine equivalent of potty training a child by shouting at them. You want your dog to want to behave in an appropriate way - in the same way that you praise a child for going in the potty rather than frightening them when they don't!

Pet correctors also run the risk of making dogs more frightened which can develop into aggression. Positive reinforcement training is a much better way of doing things.

Thanks @Tappering
I knew someone would know much better than me.
In all honesty, I've probably used it once and she is over a year old now.
My DD BF tends to use it maybe once a week when she is barking a lot, but this very rare.
She's really good for me. I've always done positive, reward based stuff.
I obviously think she is perfect!