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Asking for borrowed car back - family feud

57 replies

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 09:05

Bit complicated, this is about mainly about my brother's big car, my emotions are raw- my sister has made huge mistakes with cars (who doesn't ?), my brother used to buy good cars, dad sorted everything out for sis. I don't drive, but my husband does (and dad has never been involved in any car buying decisions

Sister (nearly 50) had a couple of cars, both needed work doing, so she had dad's car. She was supposed to buy it from him, she hasn't yet.

Brother was unable to drive since he went into hospital a year ago - but I remember driving his very nice, big car (deliberately not naming cars here, as it's not important), to see dad in hospital, shopping for presents for family, and general other stuff - god, I have really STRONG memories of my brother driving me in this car, it was his pride and joy.

When my brother went into hospital is about when mum & dad gave my sister their car. They sometimes used my brother's pride and joy (called 'nice' car) as my dad has arthritis as well as having had a kidney removed, so it was easier for him to get into and out of.

It is also automatic - this is VERY important.

My sister needed to collect something and asked to borrow my brother's nice car (her car is the same make, but slightly smaller).

Mum and dad agreed, and lent it to her to collect the items.

Then brother went into hospital, so she and her partner (since lockdown), said they'd keep the car to take the car so they could take mum and dad to hospital (my sister's car was perfectly big enough for 5 people, let alone 4).

Yesterday my dad collected me in his other car, as he needed me to run some errands for him. It is low and manual. He has difficulty getting in and out of it. He crunched the gears several times, and stalled it a couple of times. He said he'd got used to automatics and was thinking of getting another?????

When I got back to their house, I had a quiet word with mum. She said she'd expected my brother's car back by now, and is worried it isn't going to be returned.

As my other thread shows, my brother died on Tuesday. He wouldn't have wanted my sister to have his car, he would have wanted dad to have it (he refused sister to borrow it when she asked him in the past). Even less, some new man he's never met using it. Especially when they have a perfectly serviceable car, and dad's other car is temperamental

I don't know how to broach this though. Mum confided in me that she fears that my sister (or maybe more likely her boyfriend) have no intention of returning it (after using for one specific reason, although I concede fate intervened in a cruel way.

Dad loved driving that car, it is not just that it's steeped in my brother, but it's easy for him to get in and out of (he needs hip replacements but cannot have them), and is automatic, so is easy to drive.

To give an idea of how my sister's boyfriend has taken ownership - last weekend - it was difficult for me to see my brother. In the end everyone agreed that my dh would drive me, dd, mum & dad to the hospital. However, our car is small, and we wouldn't fit in. So I Whatsapped my sister saying we'd need my brother's car. All hell broke loose. My sister phoned my dad shouting at him. She refused to speak to me.

In the end she said she drove us (dh & dd stayed at home), and told me I'd caused an argument with her boyfriend and he didn't want me in the car....I showed my mum the car. I wasn't abusive, accusatory or anything. I just asked for the car to accommodate us all. I met him for the first time and apologised for causing an argument between them, and he said he hoped I sorted my head out.

So I'm not sure what I'm asking here. My brother would want my dad (who he adored, I sat crying reading our texts about dad, I thought he'd be here, with me, looking after dad), he'd WANT dad, no EXPECT dad to have his car.

He would be FURIOUS that my sister's boyfriend had his pride and joy, whilst my sister had my dad's better car, whilst dad struggled with a low, manual car.

I should also add that my sister and her boyfriend have talked and both decided that dad shouldn't be driving.... dad's doctor is fine with him driving, but how convenient, maybe?

OP posts:
DibDibDibduh · 09/07/2020 09:14

Your sister is a selfish bitch
If there are spare keys just take it back

Hoppinggreen · 09/07/2020 09:17

Sorry for your loss
Did he have a will? If not then everything (including his car) will pass down to his next of kin so whoever that is will own the car

Tappering · 09/07/2020 09:17

I'd take the spare key and just go and collect it - it's not their car.

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MrsMoastyToasty · 09/07/2020 09:20

Report it stolen.

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 09:25

@DibDibDibduh You made me laugh, thank you. We both love(d) our sister, but he did used to call her that.

@Hoppinggreen No, he never made one. He was 44. He still lived at home. We (and he) never expected him to get ill. It was all a shock. He let dad borrow his car, he adored dad

OP posts:
Hileni · 09/07/2020 09:26

So sorry for your loss, OP. Who legally owns the car? If it's in your brother's name then it will be passed to his next of kin. If he's not married then usually it will go to his parents.

I'd suggest getting legal advice for your parents and then supporting them in how they want to proceed in getting the car back.

majesticallyawkward · 09/07/2020 09:26

Surely they are driving it illegally? You have to be the owner/registered keeper of a car to insure it, if it's still registered as your brothers car your sister can't insure it, and any insurance your brother had will now be void.

I agree with pp, report the car as stolen and get it back. Your sister is unbelievably entitled, are you even bothered about falling out with her? Doesn't seem like a great loss.

Moopoohootoo · 09/07/2020 09:32

Sorry for your loss.

As above who is the next of kin of who is it left for in the will? Im not sure you can report it stolen because it would be her word against the word of your brother. And if its his car he cant report it stolen, sorry dont mean that to sound cold but its hard for the police to get involved if the owner has not reported it stolen.

If its been left to somebody other than your sister in the will then they can report it stolen I expect.

imsooverthisdrama · 09/07/2020 09:33

Yeah who's insured it ?
If your dB didn't make a will the next of kin is your parents? So anything goes to them.
I think your parents need to be firm and say it was a loan and they are to return it .
Your ds sounds like she's selfish and will probably kick off though.
Also sorry for your loss of your dB Thanks

Moopoohootoo · 09/07/2020 09:33

Im not sure I would be going to take it back. Your sister sounds like a nasty bit of work and it would only cause you extra hassle that you dont want right now. Check who owns it legally and go through the correct process.

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 09:39

I can't get it back as I can't drive. I posted on the thread yesterday that my sister wants him to be taken to the funeral directors near her house (miles away), rather than near my parents (he wanted to go home, and after talking to my parents, unless she bullies them, they have decided this - I didn't bully, I simply asked, so I knew their wishes, so if that changes I know they are being manipulated).

Dad would never agree to it being reported stolen. He's a bit scared of Dsis. I think he's scared to ask for it back, even though it was ever a loan to collect some units for one afternoon, and Dbro would desperately want dad to have it back, and it's almost disrespectful to my dbro to let them keep it and have dad struggle. Dad said he may as well kill himself if he had to give up his license, yet he's almost doing this by making himself reliant on them by not insisting on having the car back!

OP posts:
FelicityPike · 09/07/2020 09:40

Your mum & dad we’re in the wrong to loan your sister the car in the first place. It didn’t belong to them.
One of you needs to take the spare key and retrieve the car. Today is possible.

FelicityPike · 09/07/2020 09:42

Phone the police before you go and take it, because your sister sounds the type to go scripto.
Also, I’m so sorry for your loss Flowers

imsooverthisdrama · 09/07/2020 09:44

If he's not going to ask for it back then what can you do .
If she's as selfish as she sounds she's not going to return it without asking .
Speak to your mum & dad and talk them into speaking to your ds . If they won't then there is not much you can do .
They either want it back or not but they need to request it .

MyGodImSoYoung · 09/07/2020 09:44

This all sounds so tragic OP, I'm very sorry.

As your DB doesn't have a Will, his property will pass under the Intestacy Rules. Does your DB have a spouse/civil partner or any children? If not, all of his Estate will pass to your parents, including the car. Your sister is not entitled to any of it xx

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 09/07/2020 09:45

Just go and get it. I honestly don't see why you haven't. Your sister's boyfriend isn't even family! I don't know why you are pussyfooting around tbh.

Disfordarkchocolate · 09/07/2020 09:50

Assuming it's registered to your brother your parents will own once everything is sorted as he had no will. I think you need someone who isn't intimated by sister and her boyfriend to go over and get it. Make sure they are insured in case sister gets arsey and reports them.

EmpressSuiko · 09/07/2020 09:53

Hu OP so sorry for your loss, can you and your DH not go and collect the car together? Your dsis has already caused a rift in your relationship so I wouldn’t worry about anymore damaged caused.
She isn’t entitled to keep it. Have you asked her to give the car back? Surely it’s illegal for them to have the car as they don’t actually own it and if your db had no family of his own then your parents would be his next of kin so the car is rightfully theirs.

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 09:59

I've just spoken to mum. The car that my Dsis has now, was actually sold to mum & dad (I know dad gave my Dbro £5000 as he had some debts), but they shared it.

However the car that dad is currently using is solely owned by my brother, and a payment came out of his bank for it today. Mum said she will have to phone the bank and they won't be legally allowed to drive it from when she informs he has died anyway (until probate). She intends to tell them today, so they will need the car back today,

I still imagine my Dsis will kick up a stink and say that mum and dad won't need a car and they can come over and drive them around...which is blatantly ridiculous when they have mum & dad's car and my Dsis's car.

My Dsis's partner had his own car, that he sold when he moved in with her, to help financially as he doesn't work, and I expect he rather fancies having a big, expensive, nice car to drive around in, rather than be driven around by my sister. Of course I could be wrong, in which they will return the car without a murmur today, and I will update later.

OP posts:
PerfectPenquins · 09/07/2020 09:59

Someone needs to stand up to her or you drop it completly. I would just go and get it but as you dont drive you need to take someone with you.

Mumtumwobble · 09/07/2020 10:04

Your sister is being very selfish, but I can see how your parents wouldn’t want to cause further upset at a time like this. However, they need to stand their ground and say they need to car back. Could you maybe have a word with your sister and explain that the car your dad is using is unsuitable and he needs to car back.

flight2020 · 09/07/2020 10:06

Look at the insurance on the car , who has permission to drive it ? It's usually a named driver and others with owners permission , if sister doesn't have owners permission she's not insured
Tax - car tax is to one specific person , who taxed the car ?

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 10:08

@MyGodImSoYoung I've updated above as it is mum & dad's car they've got, and my Dbro's car mum & dad have got (why do I know nothing?)

My brother had no dependants. He never married or had children. He would have made the most wonderful father, and it is the thing that I regret most. He was the best uncle that ever lived. He was a better father to my son than his own ever was - and my son fully concurs.

I still can't get over my sister telling me to not play music to our Dbro in case it disturbed other patients, it really, really sticks in my craw. I wanted him to listen to his favourite songs before passing, fuck knows he'd been deprived of music for a whole bloody year. I frankly couldn't give a shit if a few people on a noisy ward adjoining his private room, were mildly disturbed for a few moments - he was DYING, they weren't, he was 44! He came first at that moment, and it was a mobile phone, not a ghetto blaster!

I know this is part of grief. Recriminations. I was snappy at my husband last night. Everybody and everything makes me angry right now.

OP posts:
WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 10:10

@flight2020 It's taxed to dad, and dad is the main insured driver. My sister's boyfriend was put on it for one specific purpose, to collect furniture. As I said it is actually dad's car. It seems an arrangement between him and my parents (he lived with them, how they arranged things I was not party to).

OP posts:
WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 10:13

@Mumtumwobble It's not a case of the car they're using being unsuitable, since speaking to mum, it will be illegal, as the car they're using is actually my Dbro's and the one my sis has is my parents. Dbro was still paying for the one my parents are using, so as soon as they tell the bank, they will no longer be able to use it. I wasn't aware of this when I made the OP

OP posts: