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Asking for borrowed car back - family feud

57 replies

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 09:05

Bit complicated, this is about mainly about my brother's big car, my emotions are raw- my sister has made huge mistakes with cars (who doesn't ?), my brother used to buy good cars, dad sorted everything out for sis. I don't drive, but my husband does (and dad has never been involved in any car buying decisions

Sister (nearly 50) had a couple of cars, both needed work doing, so she had dad's car. She was supposed to buy it from him, she hasn't yet.

Brother was unable to drive since he went into hospital a year ago - but I remember driving his very nice, big car (deliberately not naming cars here, as it's not important), to see dad in hospital, shopping for presents for family, and general other stuff - god, I have really STRONG memories of my brother driving me in this car, it was his pride and joy.

When my brother went into hospital is about when mum & dad gave my sister their car. They sometimes used my brother's pride and joy (called 'nice' car) as my dad has arthritis as well as having had a kidney removed, so it was easier for him to get into and out of.

It is also automatic - this is VERY important.

My sister needed to collect something and asked to borrow my brother's nice car (her car is the same make, but slightly smaller).

Mum and dad agreed, and lent it to her to collect the items.

Then brother went into hospital, so she and her partner (since lockdown), said they'd keep the car to take the car so they could take mum and dad to hospital (my sister's car was perfectly big enough for 5 people, let alone 4).

Yesterday my dad collected me in his other car, as he needed me to run some errands for him. It is low and manual. He has difficulty getting in and out of it. He crunched the gears several times, and stalled it a couple of times. He said he'd got used to automatics and was thinking of getting another?????

When I got back to their house, I had a quiet word with mum. She said she'd expected my brother's car back by now, and is worried it isn't going to be returned.

As my other thread shows, my brother died on Tuesday. He wouldn't have wanted my sister to have his car, he would have wanted dad to have it (he refused sister to borrow it when she asked him in the past). Even less, some new man he's never met using it. Especially when they have a perfectly serviceable car, and dad's other car is temperamental

I don't know how to broach this though. Mum confided in me that she fears that my sister (or maybe more likely her boyfriend) have no intention of returning it (after using for one specific reason, although I concede fate intervened in a cruel way.

Dad loved driving that car, it is not just that it's steeped in my brother, but it's easy for him to get in and out of (he needs hip replacements but cannot have them), and is automatic, so is easy to drive.

To give an idea of how my sister's boyfriend has taken ownership - last weekend - it was difficult for me to see my brother. In the end everyone agreed that my dh would drive me, dd, mum & dad to the hospital. However, our car is small, and we wouldn't fit in. So I Whatsapped my sister saying we'd need my brother's car. All hell broke loose. My sister phoned my dad shouting at him. She refused to speak to me.

In the end she said she drove us (dh & dd stayed at home), and told me I'd caused an argument with her boyfriend and he didn't want me in the car....I showed my mum the car. I wasn't abusive, accusatory or anything. I just asked for the car to accommodate us all. I met him for the first time and apologised for causing an argument between them, and he said he hoped I sorted my head out.

So I'm not sure what I'm asking here. My brother would want my dad (who he adored, I sat crying reading our texts about dad, I thought he'd be here, with me, looking after dad), he'd WANT dad, no EXPECT dad to have his car.

He would be FURIOUS that my sister's boyfriend had his pride and joy, whilst my sister had my dad's better car, whilst dad struggled with a low, manual car.

I should also add that my sister and her boyfriend have talked and both decided that dad shouldn't be driving.... dad's doctor is fine with him driving, but how convenient, maybe?

OP posts:
Bluetrews25 · 09/07/2020 10:19

So are they driving on your Dad's insurance policy?
Great - very simple to sort out - they need to take him off the insurance, and tell them, then he cannot drive the car. And you can't have x2 insurance policies on the same vehicle. As long as he is not insured fully comp on another vehicle whereby he'd have 3rd party on any vehicle if his policy stated so. Can't insure it = can't use it.

Sorry for your loss OP. You could do without this extra stress burden.
Flowers

MulticolourMophead · 09/07/2020 10:21

I guess you and your DH will need to support your parents in getting the car back. And much sympathy for your loss Thanks, I'm sure you could well do without this sort of selfish behaviour at this time.

billy1966 · 09/07/2020 11:13

This man is trying to steal this car from under your noses.

Your sister is a disgrace.

I really hope you don't allow her to bully your parents.

Awful the way some people behave.Flowers

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HollowTalk · 09/07/2020 11:22

I agree your sister is a disgrace. The whole of your family needs to stand together on this. I'm so sorry you lost your brother. Flowers

ProfessorSlocombe · 09/07/2020 11:25

OP might want this moved to "Legal", since there are so many views on what the law is going on here.

Evelefteden · 09/07/2020 11:29

I hope they bring it back. If they don’t you and your parents need to start standing up to her

Hoppinggreen · 09/07/2020 11:34

Remove the boyfriend from the insurance
Tell your sister that he is not insured in a way that is proveable.
Unfortunately your parents are going to have to stand up to her and the BF, I appreciate it’s hard while grieving but a CF like that won’t behave like a decent human being unless made to

BoatyKarenMcKarenface · 09/07/2020 11:34

Everything will pass to your mum and dad if dB had no will. I would get a solicitor to deal with it all, and get them to write to the sister to say the car needs to be returned.

BoatyKarenMcKarenface · 09/07/2020 11:35

I'm sorry about your brother btw Flowers

MashedPotatoBrainz · 09/07/2020 11:45

I agree with the others, hard though it is your parents are going to have to put their foot down and tell her to return it. It does sound like the new boyfriend sees it as his car and your sister is pandering to him.

endofthelinefinally · 09/07/2020 11:46

This is absolutely awful.
Your sister's boyfriend is a real piece of work and she isn't much better.
As pp have said, your parents now own all your brother's property and effects.
They are not responsible for any debts.
When my son died I paid for 15 death certificates, enough for every institution he ever dealt with. That is all that is required.
If your sister and her bf keep the car that is theft. If they are not named on the insurance that is fraud.
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.
Flowers

LemonBreeland · 09/07/2020 11:58

I hope you get all of this sorted for your parents OP. Your sister sounds like a right piece of work.

And I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother.

LadyCatStark · 09/07/2020 12:00

This is the last thing you and your parents need at a time like this! Your Dad needs to take the ‘partner’ (who sounds very new and awful) off the insurance today. Then they’ll have no choice but to give it back.

RedOasis · 09/07/2020 12:21

Sister selfish. Take keys and give them to dad. It’s not right. Plus her names not on the title or v5 or whatever so she can’t do anything about it. Maybe you could get it transferred into dads name before she tries to?

kenandbarbie · 09/07/2020 12:43

If he had no Will, doesn't that mean everything automatically goes to your parents anyway?

Belowwreck · 09/07/2020 12:53

You can't do this for your parents. They need to sort this themselves.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 09/07/2020 13:04

How selfish she is, to put your parents through this at this time.

TinkerLilly · 09/07/2020 13:17

Sorry for your loss.
Just because there's no will doesn't mean you cannot consult a solicitor for advice on how to deal with your brother's affairs. Lots of people take advice on tax issues etc just to make sure they are doing things correctly. Your parents could do this and then get the solicitor to send a letter requesting the return of the car. If your sister kicks off, they can blame the solicitor but say it's got to be returned 'as the solicitor said it's the law'. (Which it is of course but this just gives your sister someone else to moan about.)

freeingNora · 09/07/2020 13:28

Your brothers next of kin are his parents probate will resolve that for you

Your sister is awful and your dad needs the car back tell her that she's going to kick off trying to keep it but soon they will be carless and they need it back end of discussion

freeingNora · 09/07/2020 13:29

Sorry for your loThanks

WishIWasSomewhereElse · 09/07/2020 16:18

Dad is refusing to ask for the car back, Dsis has always been indulged, or kicked off (kicked the dog, slammed doors). He is happy for her boyfriend to have it longer. Mum and dad had a huge argument over it. As it turns out dad can drive the not so nice car too (seems like I am always left out of the loop).

However, dad's car has disabled tax. Mum just looked it up to inform me as she wanted to check. So I'm not sure of the legality of them using a car with disabled tax, for their own personal use? Plus the other car had error codes earlier. He seems scared to ask for it back? But if it's true that they can't use it as it's got disabled tax (and not just run dad around then use it to go shopping, etc on their own), he may have more confidence.

However

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 09/07/2020 17:56

Never heard of disabled tax. Is it a Motability car or something?
If so then your sister certainly shouldn’t have it
Unfortunately though if your Dad is too scared of his own daughter to stand up to her then there’s nothing you can do

Bluetrews25 · 09/07/2020 18:00

Hmm. Maybe Dad doesn't want to 'lose' another child.
Understandable, but unfortunate.

Herja · 09/07/2020 18:11

If the car is tax exempt due to higher rate mobility, then that is for his use. If he cannot drive, he can nominate a driver I believe. Clearly he can drive and wants to drive, so your sister is taking the utter piss. The government is subsidising your sister and her scrounging boyfriend, and your dad is being ripped off.

I can see why your parents wouldn't want to cause problems at the moment, but your sister is behaving appallingly.

ProfessorSlocombe · 09/07/2020 19:00

However, dad's car has disabled tax. Mum just looked it up to inform me as she wanted to check. So I'm not sure of the legality of them using a car with disabled tax, for their own personal use?

nil-rated excise duty for cars is intended for the benefit of the named person only. If he has sadly passed, the disc should be surrendered as soon as possible and the car taxed at the correct rate.

Basically they are driving an untaxed car.