'Cancel' culture

[Megatron]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53330105

Forgetting anyone's opinions on JKR, (I know they are pretty mixed on here) as she is only one of many, many public figures who have signed this, what are your feelings on 'cancel' culture?

I recently came off Twitter because I'm sick to death with many innocuous posts being dissected, taken out of context, unpicked and twisted etc resulting in baying mobs declaring that that particular person is now cancelled.

No debate, no discussion, just cancelled.

Active discussion seems to be almost discouraged sometimes and hoards of people seem to have one giant toddler tantrum and declare that someone is finished, done, cancelled.

Surely, that isn't a good thing?

Cancel culture is about more than just this issue.

There's a whole thing about polarised views. And rather than listen and debate. The idea is to 'cancel' the ones you don't like. This has come from the internet obv and made miles worse by Twitter Facebook etc deleting posts/ banning posters. This is most obvious around misogyny and has been going for a good while. Can't think of any examples right now sorry. But essentially men saying awful stuff, women getting banned/ deleted when they challenge it.

I agree that reading 'White Swans' is a good idea. The basic problem is that human beings are social animals and require validation of their opinions in order to feel secure.
Therefore many followers, whether on Twitter, Facebook or on here, merely repeat what the previous person has said, using slightly different terms.
When someone offers an opposing point of view, this too is frequently followed by several people echoing the same sentiment.
Very few people actually think things through for themselves. This can then escalate to becoming a cancel culture.

There is no nuance in discussions any more you have to stick to your side and die on that hill, whilst I agree with JKR, her and a lot of her supporters where all for the cancel culture when it went in their favour, the 'non existent' slippery slope has now taken affect however.

It was a regular occurance on MN that someone would come on and signal boost a twitter random for speaking something 'offesnive' or problomatic and many 1000 posts deep where still calling for them to lose their job etc.

It's a contribution of social media and people having such triabl mindsets (which spans all sides of the political spectrum and no side is better or more educated etc as the other), what is becoming common in some of the research my team is doing is that those who have recently become concerned about 'cancel culture' have also been quite happy to pile on if it didn't fit their personal narrative.

It is going to be hard to shift this new mindset.

I have another question. Many of MNers are themselves employers and managers. How would they react, if somebody reported their employee or subordinate tweeting something "unacceptable" - like gender critical views, or something maybe silly, yet innocent, like "all lives matter", or "covid is a hoax, and vaccine will kill you".

Depends on the role
On whether a private or work account
And what was said

Not something I'd like to navigate.

This is the thing with the internet-
Things posted last forever. I am really uncomfortable with eg dragging up posts from when someone was 17 and now they're 30. And have shown no indication of having the views they had then. Or. They didn't have them then but a mate did and so they said haha to a meme.

I think people also don't conceive that the internet is all real people iyswim it's like posting into the void. trivial.

Also the net esp Twitter invites and encourages polarisation of opinion, viewing the opposition as 'baddies'. It's easy to get worked up. Agreeing to disagree is not common. Trolling is very very common. Etc.

We as a species have suddenly got a totally new way to communicate with untold numbers of people and it's not something we have got to grips with.

Or... This is what lots of people are really like ..

A combination I'd say.

I'm in my 20s and tired of it. I just mentioned my age becauze there is a misconception that we all feel the same way but we don't.

When I was growing up my parents had friends with opinions they didn't always agree on. Now it seems like one difference of opinion and you're cancelled or blocked?

whilst I agree with JKR, her and a lot of her supporters where all for the cancel culture when it went in their favour

Can you explain this, @Justanotherlurker? In what was was JKR "all for" cancel culture?

Depends on the role
On whether a private or work account
And what was said

I think if work account it is very straightforward - you shouldn't engage in twitter or facebook spats on company's time and name.

I'm more interested how would you treat an employee who, for example, writes a gender critical blog in her own time.

Why do sensible mature adults even use shit platforms like Twitter anyway?
It's full of immature kids and slebs spouting shite.
If you put your work / life details out there, then you're as daft as the pathetic kids using it.

Yeah I hate it too, its one thing for someone being responsible for their actions, and quite another for people to decide they should be cancelled, and go about it by attempting to do so before any reasonable debate or discussion can be had.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
said no one on twitter ever

Most of the instances of people being cancelled I've seen on Twitter have been jokes, apart from Mando Pony, who's a paedophile.

If you put your work / life details out there, then you're as daft as the pathetic kids using it.

You don't have to put your work/life details - they can still trace you. The real question is - freedom of speech in our own time. Or all of our jobs are on the line?

I believe it to be sinister. There is no debate due to fear. How is that a good thing? What happened to freedom of speech? I don’t agree with many on many issues but I do not think they should be told silence. Very wrong and very worrying.

www.millihill.co.uk/2021/07/10/i-will-not-be-silenced/ worth reading even if you don't agree with her. As a result of her opinions, she had to close an international peer support network for pregnant women.

While I agree that polarisation and jumping to conclusions without eveidence are absolutely a feature of culture at the moment, I just don't think cancel culture is a thing.

Many of the people complaining about cancel culture are doing so on twitter, in press interviews, on their podcast or tv shows... in which case, how have they been cancelled?

I think the vast majority of cases (but not all) are people seeing the consequences of their actions. Would love some concrete examples of people being 'cancelled' because I'm not convinced it's a real thing.

The people who have been cancelled are no longer heard.. have been hounded, threatened and silenced.

I don't have the links right now but many feminist authors have lost contacts and publishers, many academics have lost out on funding, lecturing positions, publications, athletes have had their sponsorships threatened.

Don't you get it... people are silenced and afraid that the repercussions will affect their livelihoods and their families so they do not continue to speak out.

I do get it, but I'm just not aware of any examples of this, whereas I'm aware of lots of examples of people complaining about cancel culture on their own twitter account, blog, tv interview, newspaper article, etc.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/gender-critical-at-work-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjNyNycmd7xAhVmxYUKHVS5DYEQFjAHegQIFxAC&usg=AOvVaw27924ejhEqdPr6XsYtRZqQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/gender-critical-at-work-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjNyNycmd7xAhVmxYUKHVS5DYEQFjAHegQIFxAC&usg=AOvVaw27924ejhEqdPr6XsYtRZqQ

shonaghdillon.co.uk/welcome-to-my-website/

I did read an article last year listing women who had lost publishing contracts due to stating gender critical views.. most were unknown authors and therefore have disappeared without anyone noticing.

Maybe if you asked this question in the Sex and Gender board, you might get some more details of people who have been silenced.

@groundcontroltomontydon

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it said no one on twitter ever

Oh dear, it looks like Yorkshire Parkin could be the next victim of cancel culture after council chiefs launched a probe into possible links to colonialism.

See: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1466144/parkin-cake-colonialism-cancel-culture-council-leeds-city

I can't stand the stuff myself however 'I (may) disapprove of what you eat, but I will defend to the death your right to eat it!'

Gosh, this author seems to have initiated her own cancellation!

www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/literary-do-gooder-kate-clanchy-lit-fuse-ugliest-cancellation/

"The internet-famous teacher is rewriting her 2019 memoir after accusations that it peddles racist clichés. ‘I’m not a good person’ she says

It’s said that “every day is a school-day”, but for teacher, poet and former Twitter darling Kate Clanchy, the last few have been more homework-heavy than most.

The veteran secondary-school English teacher has built a formidable online brand promoting the poetry of her young students – often accompanied by captions highlighting their difficult backstories – and critiquing Government education policy.

But now she’s on the verge of cancellation, after internet reviews accused her of peddling racist and ableist clichés in her 2019 memoir, Some Kids I Taught and What They Taught Me (which Philip Pullman once labelled “the best book on teachers and children and writing I’ve ever read”).

The extracts drawing attention describe black students’ “almond-shaped eyes” and “chocolate-coloured skin”, autistic students as “jarring”, and children in bottom sets as “dead weight”.

Incredibly, the furore was prompted by Clanchy herself, who flagged a year-old negative Goodreads review on Twitter at the end of last month, saying it wrongfully accused her of racism and that its accusations were false. But, far from prompting the wave of agreement and sympathy that she presumably intended – what internet has Clanchy been on? – the 55-year-old teacher was about to become the subject of one the ugliest cancellations in recent culture-war history. "

YANBU, this is why I don’t use Twitter. I don’t think it’s appropriate to attempt to destroy someone’s entire life - try to take away their job and their personal safety and everything else - because you don’t like one of their opinions.

@Amima

YANBU, this is why I don’t use Twitter. I don’t think it’s appropriate to attempt to destroy someone’s entire life - try to take away their job and their personal safety and everything else - because you don’t like one of their opinions.

Agreed. It's so sinister.

I remember reading about the woman from the US who was travelling to Africa and tweeted a bad joke about getting AIDS. It was an ignorant, racist statement, no doubt. She was an idiot and deserved to be called out as such.

But by the time she had got off the plane, she had lost her job and was touted as the most evil person on the planet according to Twitter. And I couldn't believe how many people were piling on, and frothing with glee at ruining this woman's life.

And they considered themselves the morally righteous ones.

It's the disproportionality that doesn't sit well with me. It's massive overreach, and people just pile in a give another kick when someone is down, just to feel better about themselves.