'Cancel' culture

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53330105

Forgetting anyone's opinions on JKR, (I know they are pretty mixed on here) as she is only one of many, many public figures who have signed this, what are your feelings on 'cancel' culture?

I recently came off Twitter because I'm sick to death with many innocuous posts being dissected, taken out of context, unpicked and twisted etc resulting in baying mobs declaring that that particular person is now cancelled.

No debate, no discussion, just cancelled.

Active discussion seems to be almost discouraged sometimes and hoards of people seem to have one giant toddler tantrum and declare that someone is finished, done, cancelled.

Surely, that isn't a good thing?

Why anyone gives two shits what JKR says about trans issues is beyond me- she's a famous and successful author, she is no special authority when it comes to sex, gender, trans rights or the ongoing debate about the same. But that's besides the point.

I understand many of the concerns raised in the letter JKR and others put their names to and to some extent I share them: however, I would be just as concerned were we to swing sharply the other way. I suppose what I need right now is a cure for fence- sitter's arse.

@Loveinatimeofcovid

You might want to tell that to advertisers.

As I say - when your Twitter presence is also your personal fan relationship mechanism and your way of selling your influence/brand, advertisers will absolutely follow trends around identities.

Kylie Jenner wiped some absurd $$$ value off a SM platform (Snapchat?) simply by tweeting that she didn't use it any more.

I have friends who work in marketing and the spend to presence/positive mentions etc can lurch alarmingly with social media 'cancelling'.

And if you think that only affects the celebrities, you'd be wrong. Harry Potter merch takes a global plummet if Jk Rowling is 'cancelled' which affects everyone from those selling Harry Potter escape rooms, to those knitting Gryffindor scarves on Etsy to those in marketing who lose the income of directing people to all that other stuff.

Sure, you could argue that all that stuff is non-essential, but then so is 'cancelling' people.

@thecatsthecats I suppose so, I mean in that instance you’re taking advantage of marketers/companies ignorance and/or really thick followers for financial gain. I don’t know what that’s like, I suppose if you’re willing to operate like that then you’re to blame for getting into bed with these people. But the more people resist the mob mentality by continuing to buy what they want, employ who they want etc. the less it will matter.

This regressive lurch backwards away from reason won’t end until grownups who run things, just tell silly people no.

No I won’t fire some one because they disagreed with you on Twitter.

No I won’t cancel the guest speaker you disagree with.

No I quit sticking a product because you disagree with s comment the founder made.

Etc.

In a liberal democracy, we will disagree and those disagreements need to be hashed out in the open. Otherwise you get nasty surprises at the ballot box. The last place people can freely express themselves.

Todays victim of cancel culture is Jodie Comer - the actress from Killing Eve.

Jodie and I cannot stress this enough, has done nothing, except date a man who votes Republican and is from Boston in the US - they are all racist there apparently... She is now being drubbed and there are shrieks all over twitter for her to be cancelled because the man she is in a relationship, votes in a way they do not like. They want her fired from her tv show, some always "got bad vibes" from her, she is apparently a "paedophile supporter" and has received a number of death threats.

Cancel Culture.

@EmpressoftheMundane

This regressive lurch backwards away from reason won’t end until grownups who run things, just tell silly people no.

No I won’t fire some one because they disagreed with you on Twitter.

No I won’t cancel the guest speaker you disagree with.

No I quit sticking a product because you disagree with s comment the founder made.

Etc.

In a liberal democracy, we will disagree and those disagreements need to be hashed out in the open. Otherwise you get nasty surprises at the ballot box. The last place people can freely express themselves.

This is what needs to happen, I absolutely agree.

I despise this whole thing so much, I just deleted Twitter in the end. Statements by arseholes about how they “feel so unsafe” because somebody has a different opinion to them, or who are ‘triggered’ by something innocuous. How do these people manage in everyday life???

Those in favour of cancel culture are utterly convinced they are right, but also so utterly fragile because they are terrified of different views.

I'm really disliking the 'either you're with us or against us' philosophy at the moment. I also dislike the idea that someone should be discredited or labelled with whatever +ist/+phobic suffix based on the fact they share an opinion with someone else.

Eg. You like cats. Mike Celeb likes cats. Mike Celeb hates dogs. OMG I can't believe you like cats, don't you know that Mike Celeb is dogist. I couldn't consider sharing an opinion with him. He's so mean.

@Foxyloxy1plus1 the polarisation and attitude of you can't change your mind was really brought home to me during the Brexit campaigns. All those billboards quoting prominent Leavers saying something pro-EU four years earlier. Yes, you might not like the direction in which they have changed but what by saying they are hypocritical and should be held to past statements then you create a culture in which no changes of mind are acceptable. Which is terrible because how on earth are people supposed to educate themselves, respond to change situations, take on board new research etc... But then people want those with views they don't agree with to change their minds to agree with them. You can't have it both ways unfortunately...

I also think people have got really hazy on the boundaries between unacceptable/acceptable/fact/opinion. Some views are unacceptable (racism, Holocaust denial etc). Some views differ from yours but are still acceptable (Differing economic policies, conservatism v liberalism etc). Some topics are objective and you can have differing opinions (art for example). Some topics are based on fact and your 'opinion' is wrong (Flat Eart for example). But there are always some grey areas which are difficult to navigate especially on social media which is not designed for in depth, constructive debate!

Those in favour of cancel culture are utterly convinced they are right, but also so utterly fragile because they are terrified of different views.

Yes and I often wonder if they just have NO idea how to form a reasonable, intelligent counter argument therefore just throw their toys out of the pram and declare that someone is cancelled. It's easier that way for them.

Only just heard of CC, I'm not on Twitter thank god only FB & have made my Instagram private.

All sounds very Stalinist!! Reminds me of a non fiction book I've got called The Whisperers, Private Life in Stalin's Russia, by Orlando Figes.

I really recommend reading it - if you want to be scared at how bad CC can get!!

I can't stand cancel culture 😔😔

I saw some horrendous things on Twitter at the weekend regarding a you tuber my daughter I watch.

His friends would appear to have been getting a little too over zealous when texting girls. The girls were 17 year olds at the time, so not illegal, from what I saw, the guys were just coming across a little too keen but the girls were lapping it up and voluntarily meeting up with them again and again, so had no problem with it at the time. Now suddenly 4 years later they've decided these young guys are sexual predators and need to be punished so because this guy had featured them in his videos, people are calling for his channel to be shut down and calling him all sorts! He's not responsible for what his mates do!

The guy who owns the you tube channel has done absolutely nothing wrong and comes across so genuine and nice. He put a statement out saying that he's seen the accusations and going forward the channel would only feature him and his girlfriend, but that still wasn't good enough for them. Last I saw he was being called a paedo because he got together with his girlfriend when she was 15. He was only 17 at the time tho, he's now 23, she's 21 and they're still together, so wasn't just a fleeting hook up. I really don't see anything at all wrong with that but people are actually baying for his blood 😔😔 it's actually shocking

@roking it's weird though because in the flip of that I am aware of a situation where someone was let go from a job because messages came to light where they had been making inappropriate comments about a teenager and their younger sibling. Lots of people have been saying they shouldn't have been let go because they were young and being edgy like lots of kids do.

I went on Twitter and saw the vitriol Jodie Comer was getting. The language was venomous- sex based slurs.

Then I saw JKR and Baroness Nicholson being hounded.
Julie Bindel had 'won' an IPSCO ruling though after some man tried to 'cancel' her.

Orwellian times.

IPSO

I saw someone complaining about cancel culture and the first response was someone saying 'well they shouldn't have done whatever it was that they got cancelled for in the first place'. It sounded like the person was 9 years old that that was their immediate thought. When asked what this particular person had done they said they didn't actually know. But hey, they deserve it anyway ...

Absolutely agree - left-wing ideals, right-wing methods. Why I, as a left-wing liberal am completely bemused by the idea of being forced to believe someone else's non-factual belief or else I'm not 'kind' or am 'phobic'. Madness.

I hate it. I think the term itself sounds so childish, it's embarrassing seeing grown adults using it.

It's used to immediately shut down debate, usually because the 'canceller' doesn't seem to have the intelligence to articulate why they disagree with someone, so all they can do is scream 'yOu'Re CaNcElLeD' and hope it attracts the attention of the 'professionally offended on behalf of everybody else' mob to join the pile on.

It's toxic.

@HandsOffMyRights

I went on Twitter and saw the vitriol Jodie Comer was getting. The language was venomous- sex based slurs.

Then I saw JKR and Baroness Nicholson being hounded.
Julie Bindel had 'won' an IPSCO ruling though after some man tried to 'cancel' her.

Orwellian times.

The sense of entitlement they have is actually scary too. Reading through the tweets, it's seems like they honestly believe Jodie Comer ought to have ran her decision to date this guy through them first. Like they deserve a say in who she dates, because she's in a programme they like. Bizarre.

It's not just right-wing methods. It's the same methods of left-wing regimes too, notably Stalinism and Maoism.

As well as the Orlando Figes book mentioned upthread, I'd recommend White Swans, about the cultural revolution in China. Chillingly similar to what is happening now.

Attached are 2 tweets from an article on HuffPost re: cancel culture. Terrifying really. “Comply with the correct way of thinking” WTF?

I believe my 7yo in the midst of a tantrum comes up with more coherent arguements than some of the Twitter cancellers.

The art of debate seems to be dying. The sad thing is, while these people are busy being offended, the actual abuse if those they say they are protecting continues.

@Jjou

Attached are 2 tweets from an article on HuffPost re: cancel culture. Terrifying really. “Comply with the correct way of thinking” WTF?

Once again for those at the back, 1984 was not an instruction manual.

(I promise I love puppies and kittens 😊)

Obviously hate speech is hate speech & should be dealt with appropriately.

However I don't agree with the I don't like your opinion so you are a "name call". It's reductive & you get to the point where one persons opinion may be logical but because their sister in law once voted for Trump their opinion is now redundant. I also hate the your killing us with your thoughts & words rhetoric.