What would you personally consider ‘man’s work’ (if any)

[Smyths]

Just curious really. I’m a bit of a feminist type and feel like I should be able to do everything a man can and be self sufficient but just means I feel hopeless when I realise I can’t. I often expect too much of myself beyond my capabilities.

What do you personally consider man’s work (if any) and would always delegate/ask a male in your family to do?

Sperm donor.

I used to work as a joiner, many years ago. And I've met a female plumber. There are no "women's jobs" or "men's jobs" unless you include reproductive processes or sex work.

In my house, things that involve being or are substantially easier if you are 6 inches taller than me - so non urgent light bulbs other than the one above our bed (coz I can reach that as easily as he can) getting stuff he's chosen to store on top of the kitchen cupboards.

Some DIY tasks fall into that category - he just needs a little step stool but I need a step ladder to paint the ceiling - so it would take him much less time than me.

We both do bins as required.

Nothing.

Any jobs I'm not capable of I'd get a professional in for.

I'm a single mum. The only thing I've had a man here for in the last year has been xh to assemble the dc's massive heavy bunk beds.

Though if a man ever moves in again (doubt it), I'd ask him to go on bin duty asap, my least favourite job.

I think some of the fear and sadness of a man leaving you is if they've historically done certain jobs you think you can't do, or just don't know how to. So for that reason I suggest women learn those jobs just in case, to limit the upheaval.

I worry we have too traditional roles. But my husband is a lot bigger than me and very strong. He also enjoys diy, he is very good at carpentry. He also used to build houses so is good at various things like that I have no idea about.
I can change a Tyre and check oil etc. However last time I had a flat, I couldn't get the locking wheel nuts off and admitted defeat.

My dh does all the sewing too, he has a sewing machine and loves it. I crochet though..
He is also a really good cook.. I cook more but he's better.
He earns the money too.
I seem to raise the children and keep the house. how the fuck did that happen?

I admit sometimes I feel a bit useless around him. I had a crappy childhood and wasn't taught a lot of stuff other than ironing and cleaning.

I'm a bloody good mum and friend and I am ace at therapy and working on my shit of that counts? Dh calls me the house project manager and he's the help.

I remember my mum recoiling in horror when I said I'd just been to drop the car off to the garage. That, filling car with petrol and taking out the bins or mowing, she cannot believe I do. "surely that's Dh job?"

hamster The evidence around the gender equality paradox isn't entirely convincing yet. There was some interesting initial findings but there needs to be more research and there were some issues with the Stoet and Geary study. They're very clear that their results weren't statistically significant and other studies have found the exact opposite results.

What is interesting within that study is that in more economically secure societies young people feel more able to choose careers that lie within their interests rather than making a decision that is economically driven (which could lend support to a biological element) but all studies still recognise that stereotypes exist and are an influencing factor in addition to parental and teacher influence ( which are also influenced by stereotypes etc)

No men in this house. But everything l don't like doing is my DPs job. So washing up, bins and DIY. If she was. Man maybe l would call them a man's job.
At work we have one man in our to team. We have delegated some jobs as a man's job. Just because he doesn't mind cleaning and lifting some things that the rest of us hate. He seems quite happy to have his man jobs though.

A si.mple trick for opening jars. Turn them on their side and tap the edge of the lid firmly on a hard surface. You may have to do it a couple of times but it works without fail.

My grip is non existent thanks to arthritis so I wouldn't be able to open a jar without this.

DH is responsible for the insemination bit of conception but apart from that all domestic tasks are interchangeable (although I tend to do the vast majority as I have more time, I also have dibs on all Ikea furniture).

@SueEllenMishke

I agree with what you're saying - i think that in careers societal expectations are probably the single biggest factor, but is there no dynamic interplay between biology and social structures? It may be now those structures have become so stereotyped and rigid that they no longer have the free interplay and feedback that biological mechanisms can feed into (thus why traditionally womens work is so poorly paid, because it can be economincally manipulated when it is so rigid), but isn't it reasonable to think that biological structures are what actually laid the foundation for those social structures? After all, who had the power, and the foresight, tens of thousands of years ago to say 'let's make all the women do the childcare, that way when economic extremes are upon us, we can oppress them.'

The the very nature of human beings as social animals working within social groups meant that there developed early on a need for specialisms which reinforced rapidly over generations. I imagine that there were and are women who would have been equal or even better than most men at hunter/gathering (or it's modern equivalent) type work, but I imagine they were (and in fact still are) the exception rather than the norm, and that social structures generally make room for the norm rather than the exception (thus why life is naturally so much more difficult for anyone who is not neuro-typical, or doesn't feel comfortable within stereotype roles).

And for everyone worried about opening jars - get a strap wrench. They allow you to exert much greater torque very easily (they're designed for undoing oil filters on cars, but they work well on jar lids as well) - something like this: uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00070/strap-wrench-set-2pcs/dp/2444459?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6PD3BRDPARIsAN8pHuGJgVkhxUaUCkuRHscjUTcQhczJnkBMao4ttNC9P2w1EAuQVN4XrF0aAt2wEALw_wcB&gross_price=true&mckv=s2JVPt827_dc|pcrid|395522772397|plid||kword||match||slid||product|2444459|pgrid|80928459577|ptaid|pla-298619066820|&CMP=KNC-GUK-SHOPPING-DURATOOL-112B

hiddenmnetter I'm not saying biology doesn't play it's part but in terms of career decisions, societal factors are far more influential and they are so ingrained that many of us don't even realise it. We all have unconscious biases which influence our decisions and feelings particularly around gender roles.

There is evidence that in early societies there was equality of the sexes and that it was key in our successful evolution - division only started with the introduction of agriculture.

@SueEllenMishke

Have you got any links to articles/studies? This is fascinating and I've never heard it before:

'There is evidence that in early societies there was equality of the sexes and that it was key in our successful evolution - division only started with the introduction of agriculture.'

@eckhart
This one is interesting ....
science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6236/796

While there were still some segregation in types of role undertaken (which is the biology bit) there was evidence that there was equality in choices, specifically about where to live and who with.

Spilling Rice Crispies on the floor and cutting through the hedge trimmer cord within 30 seconds of plugging it in seems to be a mostly male occupation in our house.

And being a brilliant cook. I can forgive him anything for his apple and walnut cake.

@SueEllenMishke Thank you!

Interchangeable in our house.

Today, dh is putting a (very heavy) mirror up on the chimney breast.
No way could I do it.

I don’t have the strength or the height.
But.....he does the ironing

@SueEllenMishke

hamster The evidence around the gender equality paradox isn't entirely convincing yet. There was some interesting initial findings but there needs to be more research and there were some issues with the Stoet and Geary study. They're very clear that their results weren't statistically significant and other studies have found the exact opposite results.

What is interesting within that study is that in more economically secure societies young people feel more able to choose careers that lie within their interests rather than making a decision that is economically driven (which could lend support to a biological element) but all studies still recognise that stereotypes exist and are an influencing factor in addition to parental and teacher influence ( which are also influenced by stereotypes etc)

I agree that it is not entirely convincing yet - mainly because we do not really have anywhere that has achieved full equality.

However, I am really saying that biology plays a huge role at the very heart of it, especially when you look at the 'top jobs'. Males have much more variance than females. The Male Variance Hypothesis states that males display greater variance in traits than females do.

So males are more likely to be at the top and bottom for intelligence for example. What this means is that for certain roles, these males at the 'top' of the variance level have a greater advantage.

If you want a Maths professor who is going to smash out the next big insane equation, they are just more likely to be male, because of this variance issue. There are fewer females who have that ability so it stands to reason those jobs will be dominated by these very very high performing men.
I think this relates to the 'savant' propensity in males, possibly testosterone related.

I totally realise what this sounds like, believe me when I say that I was educated by some famous rad fems in the 90's and I get it. But where I stand now is that we cannot deny realities and the social constructivist argument that it's all to do with stereotypes simply doesn't stand up. Unfortunately.

The Male Variance Hypothesis does not hold up to scrutiny. One of it's biggest failings is that the variance is vastly different across different countries. That can't be explained by biology.

Most of your posts seem to be directly lifted off Wikipedia which isn't really a reliable academic source of information.

While i don't deny that biology plays a part there is a real danger in using biology as an excuse. What message does that send to girls?? Why should we bother pushing for equality if it's all determined by our biology anyway?

Nothing. Unless you count the sperm donation. Not sure that's a 'job's.

@SueEllenMishke

The Male Variance Hypothesis does not hold up to scrutiny. One of it's biggest failings is that the variance is vastly different across different countries. That can't be explained by biology.

Most of your posts seem to be directly lifted off Wikipedia which isn't really a reliable academic source of information.

While i don't deny that biology plays a part there is a real danger in using biology as an excuse. What message does that send to girls?? Why should we bother pushing for equality if it's all determined by our biology anyway?

OK, men and women have exactly the same strengths and abilities.

But they don't do they?

We all know that. Sex differences are well documented.

I worry about the 'encouragement' of girls into jobs that they have no interest in to fulfill some made up quotas and 'representation' figures. We all know we perform best when we are interested in the topic

OK, men and women have exactly the same strengths and abilities

I never said that. But groups of women or groups of men don't have the the same strengths and abilities either. Individual differences can be just that individual and not necessarily based on sex.

I worry about the 'encouragement' of girls into jobs that they have no interest in to fulfill some made up quotas and 'representation' figures. We all know we perform best when we are interested in the topic

Nobody is forcing girls into jobs they aren't interested in. Don't be dramatic. However, making sure girls (and boys) have information on the full range of jobs is very important so they can make an informed decision. Stereotypes and unconscious biases are deeply ingrained and need challenging. Both sexes are underrepresented in particular sectors ( not as many men in childcare, nursing, primary teaching for example) but what is stark is that women are underrepresented in a wide range of professions and high paying jobs. This needs addressing because it is mainly due to stereotypes, biases societal expectations and norms.

Nothing, except potentially heavy lifting as I'm pretty small. I'm a single mum and so do all jobs around the house, including DIY. There's stuff I don't have the tools for or don't know how to do but it isn't because I'm a woman.

The only thing I can think of in this house is starting the bloody stubborn petrol lawn mower. I just don't have the brute strength/knack. Once it's running I some move the lawn and he does it other times. Oh I also got the man next door in to deal with the bird that fell down the chimney because I am phobic.
DH often works away for months at a time so I do everything when he's not here. When he is here most things we take turns or work on together (when decorating he does the cutting in I roller the middle and that includes painting the outside of the house up two levels of scaffolding) Fitting a new bathroom he fitted the bath, basin and loo and I did the tiling. We have different dishes that we like to cook so it depends what's for dinner as to who's cooking and who ever didn't cook does the dishes etc. He will vacuum while I tidy/dust or vice versa - we are a team!

Some people on this thread seem to be getting mixed up about jobs they don't feel able to do because of a lack of strength or height and those that no women can do.
I am short and cannot reach some things without the use of a step or the aid of a taller person. The reason i cannot do it is to do with my height not my sex!

It occurs to me that some things are hard for women to do, because everything about it has been designed by a man for a man to use. For example someone talked about using a petrol lawnmower. If petrol lawnmowers were mostly used by women then I am sure they could be made to start without quite so much force and maybe at an angle that would not be so hard for a shorter person to achieve.