Why does the UK have so many poor people?

[KenDodd]

Just that really.
Why do you think?

@TinklyLittleLaugh

He always put it down to my Grandma being drop dead gorgeous and having the best scrubbed steps . But having that lovely 3 bedroom semi detatched, with an indoor bathroom and wash house, in a village of damp pokey terraces, changed their life

Oh Tinks, that made me well up and maybe cry a little bit how wonderful

Iamthewombat - I remember watching an interview on tv when the BT shares were floated. The guy being interviewed was a wealthy public school type, obviously old money. He was appalled that the ‘little people’ were allowed to buy the shares. I understandably can’t remember the exact wording now but he basically said the working classes should be happy with their wage packets and should know their place. It actually prompted me to buy some shares myself (did quite well out of them). That interview as always stayed with me and still makes me angry.

I tell you what, @Thebearsbunny, reading this absolutely gladdened my heart. Good on you. This is exactly why ordinary people were absolutely right to buy those shares when they were offered.

Weak unions/low union membership
Unfair taxation system
Low paid/low skill jobs
High cost of housing

Off the top of my head. I guess other European countries have their issues too though.

People saying poor education; out of interest what do you think is wrong? I feel like I got a pretty decent education but maybe its changed a lot or its cos I went to a 'good' school, I don't know.

Very high housing and living costs and low wages.

@dayslikethese1

People saying poor education; out of interest what do you think is wrong? I feel like I got a pretty decent education but maybe its changed a lot or its cos I went to a 'good' school, I don't know.

Probably because there are still slot of people who fall through the gaps in education. It's only designed for the average person. If you are bright and academic, then you won't be streached, so won't achieve as much as you could. If you aren't academic, then it's easy to get left behind and then you also wont achieve as much as you should and that can cause barriers for getting a job.

Due to the very poor careers advice in the country, it's also hard to know which courses are worthwhile for getting a job or to lead into higher education in the subject that you want, but then there is also a large chance that you couldn't do the subjects that you wanted anyway either because they don't teach them nearby or that they can't timetable them in.

We also don't put enough value on practical subjects such as bricklaying or becoming an electrician, so it can be hard to find courses for that also.

One issue that I've seen is that some people have a really crap time throughout school, so as soon as they can they leave it and get a minimum wage job.

Unfortunately as you cannot defer your last 2 years of education, when these people decide what they actually want to do with their life at 19, they suddenly find that you have to pay for courses, but have no way of getting they money to do so as they can cost several thousand.

The thing with the whole more education = better job route out of poverty (not knocking it btw) it doesn't solve the problem of poverty. If you're working in a care home and living in poverty, somehow you get a better paying job, great! But then somebody else gets the poverty job. Overall nothing changes it's just somebody else is enduring the hardship.

I think more social housing would would go much further to reducing poverty than more education. Which isn't saying education isn't good.

Literacy rates are not great in the UK - close to 10% of adults are functionally illiterate despite us having a comprehensive system of compulsory education.

I last lived in the U.K. 10 years ago, and am currently back here on holiday. The levels of poverty that I see now are absolutely shocking compared to 10 years ago. I’m staying in a posh town, and there is a lady going through the bins every morning to find food! There are numerous homeless people and drunks and people dealing drugs - and this is a “naice” town which didn’t used to have social problems when I was growing up.

There are food banks all over the U.K. now, and food donation collections in every supermarket - this was unheard of when I lived here.

There are kids growing up in fuel poverty in increasing numbers. More people on zero hours contracts.

It’s a very different U.K. to the one I left 10 years ago. I think the rich have got richer, but at the expense of the rest of society.

What does functionally illiterate mean exactly though?
How bad do you have to be to be classed as functionally illiterate? It sounds different to actually illiterate? Not pass an English GCSE? A Level?

It’s a very different U.K. to the one I left 10 years ago. I think the rich have got richer, but at the expense of the rest of society.

I think the simple answer is that we've just had ten years of Tory government, we've recently voted for five more years of the same. I guess maybe lots of people just don't see or are affected by poverty so it doesn't matter.

Bloody hell, you should see america. For the richest country in the world, there are entire cities made up of tin roofed shacks, unemployed, no access to education or medical care. They are hidden away like a dirty secret. American dream indeed

The USA is a completely different kind of country from the UK though in so many ways that I don't think it's a useful comparator. I mean the entire model is different. I think people forget that, maybe because the main language is English.

@KenDodd according to literacy organisations, a person is functionally illiterate when they are unable to use reading, writing and calculation to perform tasks necessary to operate in society. As a rough guide, it would be people with a reading age of 11 years or under.

Thebearsbunny

I think I remember that guy. I think the point was he was what Maggie Thatcher didn’t want. Cant imagine anyone who watched it didn’t think he was a Twat.

Literacy rates are not great in the UK - close to 10% of adults are functionally illiterate despite us having a comprehensive system of compulsory education

The problem stems from the fact that in primary school if you don’t “get” reading and writing by the end of year 1 you are effectively ignored.

Ds would have been part of the 10% if I had left him in school.

He struggled through year 2. He still didn’t understand how to read or write but was trying and then in year 3 he was expected to keep up with the NC homework.
Which was a non starter.

The school got rid of its SEN dept. So those that needed extra help were effectively shown the door.

I ended up home schooling him.

I think it is only going to get worse.

Bloody hell, you should see america.

I do fear that's where we're heading. We've turned our back on Europe and are moving towards a free for all American style system.

Anyone watch 'Paramedics: Life on the Line' on Really channel? It's set in Vancouver, Canada. Shocking! HUGE tent cities set up and massive problems with heroin/fentanyl. The paramedics visited one patient who'd stopped breathing even after a 'bystander' gave her Narcan and when she woke and was asked if she'd ever had CPR she replied, Two days ago'. One paramedic said they'll see some patients (someone calls them in after the Narcan fails) twice within hours for OD.

Extreme capitalism is no good, folks.

Ten years ago I worked in a very mixed environment with people visiting from all over the world. I heard many different views of the UK from educated professionals. There were things about the UK that people liked and disliked in comparison to their countries. Overall these are generalised statements of what I was told.

The European people I've spoken with always seem to think that our food is low quality - tasteless bread and less than fresh veg.

The Italian people I've known think our standards for rented housing is low.

French people think our healthcare is poor quality.

Scandinavians seem to think our food is not fresh enough and schooling isn't great. They've made comments on childcare being poor too.

Americans think our houses are small and not well furnished or decorated.

The Japanese people I've spoken too like the size of our houses but find them a bit old fashioned. They don't like our schools, prefer private health care and don't think our food is fresh enough.

Many Asian families are appalled at how our parents and grandparents are treated in old age.

I never heard comments on the amount of poor people we had. I wonder if that has changed now.

@MyShinyWhiteTeeth I am from Singapore and am appalled at the number of poor people considering
that there is a welfare state.

Yes there are more poor people in other parts of the world. But there never was any promise by the government that there is a welfare state. In Singapore, if someone has no money to afford medical care, the public would say it's the responsibility of the children or charity. People faithfully contribute 20% of salary to a savings fund knowing that it would also be used for medical care for parents and also buy medical insurance for parents. The state never said it would help everyone, only the very poor. Emphasis is on self reliance, community and family.

But in the UK there is a welfare state. We pay high taxes for the welfare state. Maybe not high enough but high compared to Asian countries. So it's appalling when I hear about 30% in child poverty and people who can't afford to put the heating on when there is supposed to be a welfare state designed so that everyone has a decent standard of living.

Your statement is simplistic. That's what I think. Poor in relation to who? How do you define poor?

@Casino218 just looked up child poverty rate for my borough, barnet. its 28.99%, nearly 30%. this means that 1 out of 3 children in the borough are raised in families where the income does not cover rent, food, bills and some reasonable leisure expenses (cup of coffee) for socialization and integration with wider community.

It can't just be a problem with some individuals who spend the child benefit money on booze and women who get knocked up by 3 different men and buy large wide screen tvs while their children starve. If its 30%!

DisobedientHamster

What has capitalism got to do with how many drugs a person takes.

Do communist countries not have drug addicts?

With child poverty I think we have to take into account the amount of people who have come from the EU to work and brought their families. (But have not found work)
Are we taking into account those that have come here with nothing in those figures because that would definitely sway the amount of families who were in poverty.

@Oliversmumsarmy my knowledge is that most EU low wage manual workers don't bring their families and sleep 8 to a room. no point bringing them to london when its cheaper to house them in poland. In fact one of cameron's aims when he was negotiating a deal with the EU before the referendum was to prevent child benefit from being sent back to Poland. Also EU workers are a net benefit to the treasury. 2/3 of families in child poverty have at least 1 worker.

As a resident of Barnet, I was once walking in Golders Hill Park (the houses around there are millions of pounds and also quite near to Bishops avenue) and a little girl came up to me and said 'i will dance for you if you give me some money'. she was blonde and look and sounded very british. I have seen children on the wrong side of Hendon selling their toys for money. At the same time, Barnet has one of the highest oxbridge and russell group uni admissions rates in the country and 3 super selective grammar schools (most of the children who go to the above schools are not on free school meals and generally from middle class backgrounds). Its a tale of 2 cities.

I have seen children on the wrong side of Hendon selling their toys for money.

I wouldn't read too much into that. When my children were little every summer they would set up their 'shop' on the drive and sell their old toys and books. We live in a very nice village and some people would describe us as rich (I wouldn't) but we're certainly not poor.

@KenDodd I wouldn't have thought much of it if it was in the garden suburb or wykeham road (£1 million house) or even in an average street but it was in the part where it is 42% child poverty.