Why are the unions being so obstructive?

[YardleyX]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53072305

I just don’t get why the unions are dead set against any proposals to open schools?

People are mixing in shops and on public transport; football matches and TV studios are back in action.

Why on earth are we continuing to deny an education to our children?

At least get a concrete plan in place for September, and stop this never-ending delay because “it might not be safe”.

So much for being guided by the science. How many of the teaching union representatives are professional scientists in any discipline?

Come on then:

1000 kids in a school. Can get 10 in average classroom, not 30.

Need X3 classrooms and teachers for September.

Not enough spaces or staff. It's not being obstructive to point out to bloody obvious.

Think that through then.

Nobody has told the virus that 2m distances stop it spreading.

The science actually points to the fact that any prolonged time in a closed room will transfer the virus.

So, if someone in the room has it, 2m is pointless.

And if no one in the room has it, 2m is pointless.

🤷‍♀️

Our local private school has hired empty venues to use as classrooms, and is now fully open.

Why shouldn’t the government do the same? Why is there no plan at all, and why did no one realise weeks ago that more space would be needed if they’re going to insist on smaller classes?

This government doesn’t have a clue, which is truly terrifying.

I think unions generally are a great idea, but my experience of them in reality is that they’re not always a force for good. In this case, too many people don’t want to go back to work properly. I’m the same, my life will be much more stressful once I have to commute every day etc - but not as stressful as it would be if the economy goes further off a cliff and I lose my job.

Well the government guidance for the wider reopening of primary schools didn’t follow the science. The combination of year groups back in school at the moment weren’t even modelled by SAGE. SAGE recommended that children attend school on a rota system to have the smallest impact on R but that is ruled out by the government guidance. At least the unions are considering the welfare of school staff.

This might give you some answers: www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/health-safety/coronavirus-guidance/requirements-for-reopening-of-schools/requirements-reopening-schools-england.html#SelfAudit

That links to a document which can only be described as, obstructive in the extreme.

It’s basically a list of problems.

“Overcome all these, or we won’t be coming back to work”

Pathetic. Imagine if every other employed person in the country did that.

I think this is spin. Loads of schools have opened whilst complying with the government guidance that was written without speaking to the unions anyway.

Are you sure those that havent arent closed because of LA risk assessments and not 'the unions'

I think it’s just the nature of unions in general. The people they employ do it was they are naturally obstructive and work shy.
Luckily, I think many teachers realise that. My year 4 is back next week and year 7 the following one.

@YardleyX

That links to a document which can only be described as, obstructive in the extreme.

It’s basically a list of problems.

“Overcome all these, or we won’t be coming back to work”

Pathetic. Imagine if every other employed person in the country did that.

Totally agree. The unions have been awful in this and labour do not seem to be calling them out. They are totally obstructive, telling teachers to actively to not engage with schools, gov I work in a hospital and we completed rejigged every single service in 3 days back in march, redeploying hundreds of stafg into completely different roles and we are now rejigging it all back again and staff are moving back. Imagine if hospitals just refused to engage, refused to do anything. It would be unthinkable, rightly so. I am very disappointed in the unions. It is so frustrating to see their negative behaviour and lack of any goodwill. They need to forget social distancing in schools at all ( scotland are suggesting this is what they will do for august) and schools should just get all the kids back.

I am not sure if it's the unions who are being obstructive as you state, or if it's the government being, well, completely useless as usual.

Guidance is for two meters. At the moment. If you do your shopping, you may pass someone who might have symptoms of COVID - or may be asymptomatic - for a couple of minutes maximum. In a classroom, you'd be next to that person for hours. In an enclosed space.

The government is issuing guidance for schools on an almost weekly basis. These guidelines are highly complex, and they change weekly so management in schools have to go through every thing with a fine tooth comb and see how they can apply them within their own schools. And discuss at length what to do with some children with medical needs, special education needs. When a child gets hurt. First aid. How they will eat. How they will go to the toilet. If you have time, please do read the guidelines yourself and see how you get on. Then come back in a week and see how you'd play it, if you were a headteacher. Because one week is probably what it would take you to read all of it, and see how you would apply it in a school. And don't forget that the guidelines are updated weekly, but the government doesn't tell you what's changed so you will have to read it all over again and figure out what's changed for yourself. Good luck.

So my thoughts on this is, be informed before making stupid statements about the unions. Oh and just so you know, there has been no guidelines for September yet. None at all, nada, nothing.

Sorry I messed up the link, here it is : www.gov.uk/government/publications/closure-of-educational-settings-information-for-parents-and-carers/reopening-schools-and-other-educational-settings-from-1-june

And a few more for you: www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings

Of course the MPs are going to blame the unions - it takes the heat off the absolutely crap and self contradictory guidance issued by their government, and undermines the unions, which is what Tories like anyway.
The point is if you are going to continue social distancing then schools cannot open as if in normal times. The government said NO to rotas. The government hasn't even provided extra funding to schools for all the extra cleaning and other stuff needed to allow for extra hygiene. Other countries have funded extra sinks for hand washing for example.
This government has proudly overseen the worst excess deaths per capita in Europe, and one of the worst in the world. And Johnson said he was proud of their response.
Of course they are going to deflect criticism.
If they had locked down earlier and harder we would be in a much better situation and able to open schools much earlier safely.

Just think logically for a moment. We can’t pop into a friend’s house or share a pot of tea with our parents, we can’t try on clothes someone else has tried on recently nor share gym equipment or swimming pools. We need to wear masks on transport. These are all to prevent the spread of the virus.

Actually, the anomaly here is the fact that shops such as Primark are open, not the fact that schools are not.

The government doesn't want to give extra money to schools just in case they want extra money every year. They are happy to underfund state education because their kids tend to be privately educated.

The government haven't even agreed to stump up for the extra cleaning costs never mind extra wash basins etc If they were serious about the science that's surely the minimum that they'd do?

Agree that there needs to be plans laid for September but the government are more interested in getting people shopping and drinking in pubs.

But my point is, why don't the unions come up with solutions. Ignore the 2 meter , that will be gone v soon.
Hospitals don't wait for detailed guidance for schools for every little eventuality. They tell gov hoe they will reconfigure their services and then get on with it. They don't come up with hundreds of whinges why they can't do this, can't do that and running 5 hospitals with hundreds of services is a million times hardere than running a primary school. A million more things can go wrong. We have 10000 staff! How many does an average school have?
It is a mindset and attitude thing.
Surely it is for the school nurse to come up with a solution for what to do if a child falls over and grazes their knee. Hardly rocket science! Is that really something schools are saying as to why they can't open to all the kids?
What did they do pre-covid?? Do the same but with a plaster, handsanitiser, gloves, mask if wanted and a smile. Job done.

I don’t think the unions are being as obstructive as we’re being led to believe. We’re being led by a government who haven’t got a clue what they’re doing and are looking for someone, anyone, to blame. They know they can’t maintain so il distancing in schools unless they throw a lot of money at the problem, which of course they will never do.

school nurse
Not where I work.

anomaly here is the fact that shops such as Primark are open, not the fact that schools are not

Have you ever thought WHY shops are open? There is an economic need, employees can't choose not to work (well they can & face the consequences).
There is also an need for our children to have an education. But teachers unions and government chooses to argue back and forth rather than working on a solution.

🤷‍♀️

@QueenofLouisiana

school nurse Not where I work.

Well first aider then. Who ever. Point is , it is for the school to figure this out. It is not hard. What would they do now if a keyworker kid fell over?

Yeah I work in education and I find it a bit embarrassing how the unions and some teachers just immediately push back on everything suggested. It's always the way though. But then again, the unions have done a lot for teachers so I can't grumble too much about them!

On the ground in real life I think that most teachers and school staff are just getting on with it, but that doesn't make juicy headlines so......

The government are blaming the unions. Quelle surprise. SD is government policy. Unions work by protecting their members. Unions are doing their jobs. It’s just a shame that the government isn’t. You’re being gaslit but an incompetent bunch of arseholes. But don’t let it get in the way of you having a good bitch. Same shit. Different day.

@sashagabadon

But my point is, why don't the unions come up with solutions. Ignore the 2 meter , that will be gone v soon. Hospitals don't wait for detailed guidance for schools for every little eventuality. They tell gov hoe they will reconfigure their services and then get on with it. They don't come up with hundreds of whinges why they can't do this, can't do that and running 5 hospitals with hundreds of services is a million times hardere than running a primary school. A million more things can go wrong. We have 10000 staff! How many does an average school have? It is a mindset and attitude thing. Surely it is for the school nurse to come up with a solution for what to do if a child falls over and grazes their knee. Hardly rocket science! Is that really something schools are saying as to why they can't open to all the kids? What did they do pre-covid?? Do the same but with a plaster, handsanitiser, gloves, mask if wanted and a smile. Job done.

I agree, it absolutely is an attitude thing.

DH is a teacher and is sick to the back teeth of the unions. They railroad their members and take no criticism from their members. Anyone who doesn't agree, they ignore. They are treating this as a political game and are playing with the lives of our children to score points.

Yes the government bears some responsibility of course, but frankly if the unions gave a shiny shit about children, as they claim to do, they would be pushing the government to get as many children back into school as possible now. Not trying to delay things even beyond September. They are dangerous and do not care about anything beyond their bullshit political point scoring.

Hospitals are run as trusts. Mine has about 20 different buildings if not more. When it comes to rejuggling staff it’s a lot easier.

Education unless you are hired directly by the lea you are contracted to a specific school. So the pool of staff is vastly reduced.

Then consider each individual and who has underlying health issues, what staff are trained in specific fields which you always have to have with students.

Maybe all 48 teachers for example haven’t got first aid training and only two do. How do you maintain the bubbles of 48 classes? Unlike nhs they have zero ppe.

If the unions and teachers were so resistant they would have called action by now. They are working within the guidelines and opening schools. Just government keep changing their minds. All the school guideline are online including the regular changes. Read them they really are an eye opener.

And surely if classes where safe then all students would be in instead of bubbles and certain year groups. That’s down to the government.

I actually think this too.
My sister is slt in a primary school and thet are just getting on with it and expect/ hope to be open fully by Sep. But she is not in a union and never has been and her school has a can do attitude.