Why are the unions being so obstructive?

[YardleyX]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53072305

I just don’t get why the unions are dead set against any proposals to open schools?

People are mixing in shops and on public transport; football matches and TV studios are back in action.

Why on earth are we continuing to deny an education to our children?

At least get a concrete plan in place for September, and stop this never-ending delay because “it might not be safe”.

So much for being guided by the science. How many of the teaching union representatives are professional scientists in any discipline?

There are no school nurses in this area. But that's an aside.
The unions did come up with plans, as did schools, and then the government came out with guidance that said they couldn't do that (such as a rota system as in other countries).
Schools and unions are desperately asking the government to issue their September guidance NOW so they can plan, and not waste hundreds of (wo)man hours again planning something that then proves to be against government guidance.
Teachers also don't want to be a special case where all Health and safety is ignored - they want the same health and safety as all other workers...

Why would the unions do that?

The school leadership team would find solutions within the legal frameworks they have to work to.

I've never worked in a hospital is it normal practice to ignore government guidance and legislation then?

Do you routinley go against government guidance?

Go Jimmy.

Unions are always awkward...what it has meant at our school is that 70% of teachers can continue their extended holiday on full pay. Why would a union want anything else

No matter that in France, Macron directed all schools open, all kids and teachers back

Presumably flippety this goes as far as your DH rejecting any pay rise or improvement in conditions that the teaching unions have fought for? No? Thought not. Utter bollocks.

France are testing pupils and teachers every week.....

@JimmyGrimble

Presumably flippety this goes as far as your DH rejecting any pay rise or improvement in conditions that the teaching unions have fought for? No? Thought not. Utter bollocks.

You have no idea. My DH has never been on strike and has never voted to go on strike.

Again they want everything to be the same for everyone so everyone has to have a shit time!! There are schools with space to enable schools to open and get back on with things but no everyone has to be the same! Frankly if people can go into non essential shops where 2m distancing was not happening they can go to school

Every other sector and organisation is having to adapt but for some reasons a large section of the education sector think they should be exempt until every minor detail is worked out and no children should get an education until 100% safety can be guaranteed for all. From what I've seen no willingness to adapt. It is just a bloody good job other areas have managed to do so.

If someone never voted to go on strike or participate they still benefit from all the rights secured by unions. I wouldn't be so proud to show this off. Theres a word for that. Scab.

Again. If you are in a shop and someone is contagious, you will probably be standing next to them for a couple of minutes. If you are in a classroom, that will be 6 hours. What is it exactly that is difficult to understand?

Have 30 people standing around all day in a small shop.

Offices still have restrictions including social distancing etc.
Cannot jump on a bus with 10 other passengers without wearing a mask.

Supermarkets you go in get your shopping whilst socially distancing yourself and leave. You're not there for 6 hours a day. And haven't teaching staff just like nhs staff, public transport workers and many more died from CV.

I don't blame schools being weary considering Nits, Stomach bugs and everything else they see their pupils getting sent into school with. And of course the bottle of calpol.

That wasn’t the point though flippety ... happy to take the benefits, happy to undermine his colleagues taking mandated action. Are you really too thick to see that?

You’re right about the word Nelly

The teaching unions and local authorities have been trying to talk to National Government about how schools can be reopened safely since they were closed for the majority of pupils

National Government refuse to meet with them and reject the plans they put forward while changing their own guidance weekly or more often. When the unions point out that the guidance National Government introduce is self-contradictory, doesn't meet basic h&s requirements (for pupils and staff) and want clarification/sensible amendment's they're called obstructive.

It's like living in a sitcom

wizzbangfizz are you sure thats whats happened.
Its not that the government has said halve your class sizes within your existing space and staff levels' and schoools have gone 'eh?'

Unions get strong and recruit lots of members when working conditions are poor. So if the NUT seems intractable that might really be indicative of the shitty deal teachers have had for the past 15years

OP

What is the point in belonging to a union or whatever when you don't appeal to your own standards or whatever?

I showed my full support about the cut backs to schools that has left them in even worse financial problems than they had. Schools that could do with that money even more so now.

Any news yet on the mythical laptops that government mentioned back in March/April? With those it would have meant that teaching could begin earlier. Last update I remember was something about schools purchasing them and get reimbursed. Many are still waiting for reimbursements for the school lunch vouchers.

Money that they need to help open doors for all the extra stationary, desks, cleaning supplies, a lot extra hand wash, drying facilities etc. Remember under the government guidelines pupils cannot share anything and they are not allowed to bring in anything from home, so an additional expense of lunches for all.

I’ve never been happy to pay private school fees (long story - we were forced into private), but now am. School (primary) is fully open, full curriculum during lockdown.
On the other hand, maybe now that parents of “normal” kids experience what parents of SENDs kids experience on a daily basis (its not possible, its not safe, no), schools finally get the funding they need to work (not blaming teachers, the system has been sucked dry so they have zero flexibility)

I can only speak from my own experience, but in my area the schools are open as much as government guidelines allow. I don't know if any examples where unions have obstructed the return of children. All of the schools in my area are open to key worker/ vulnerable children, and nursery, Rec, Y1 & Y6. My school have just released plans for all other year groups to return for a few days each. This is all we can do whilst sticking to the government guidelines.
I'm getting really cross that the governments new line is 'it's the unions fault', they are totally trying to deflect this issue.

You are joking when you say that schools will get the funding they need, aren’t you?

I'll respond despite the goady 'eh' - I've made no secret of supporting schools opening fully but in the absence of that and no signs of adaptation from my school and the fact they are actively discouraging parents from sending students in (even if they can legally be there) and the provision and help given to my two has been woeful I think I do have a right to be critical. I've complained and been told "it doesn't matter they will catch up" - that is not good enough. Not sure how many other sectors could work like this to be honest.

@Yurona you are so right about SEND children.
Home schooling when there is no suitable place, long periods away from school etc. many schools don't have the resources to deal with a handful of students.
It's been raised for years, but of course those lazy school staff.

Just like UC though. For years it's been known that the benefit system is bad and not really affordable. Once more people started going on it this year it was all suddenly raised.

Yet not that long ago it was enough to fund luxury holidays and the latest gadgets haha. And the cuts fully supported as a result. Austerity was it's name and austerity will come back to pay for this. Which of course means more cuts to education, local services, social services, police, fire, nhs etc. And those with SN, mh etc will all be screwed over as a result yet again because they will be forgotten about yet again.

Wizzbang - you do know that the government suspended the curriculum as soon as schools closed? That means that the schools who have been doing lessons have actually gone against government instructions. And that's is what has created the disparity.
They have provided oak academy and BBC Bitesize daily lessons though if you want to continue.
Personally my kids school have been providing weekly learning activities but I have supplemented with cgp workbooks and BBC Bitesize. Very little effort from me, which is just as well as I am also working from home plus providing keyworker childcare on rota