I didn't get the job but I'm expected to train successful applicant

[Toblerone345]

I recently applied for a job at my current place of work. It's a grade above me and since the previous job holder left I've been doing that role without any extra pay until they could find a replacement. I applied for the job but unfortunately I wasn't successful, despite doing the role currently alongside my actual role. Apparently they know I can do the job well as I'm already doing it, but someone else (without experience) got the job instead as they gave better examples in the interview.

Until the new joiner starts in a month or so, I'm expected to continue to do this role (none of the duties are in my job description) without extra pay. I'm then expected to train the new starter to do a job that I'm apparently not qualified for.

Does anyone know if I can be fired/disciplined for refusing to do this?

There are an awful lot of bad employers out there OP and you have the bad luck to work for one. To expect you to work extra without any payment, then appoint someone over you when you have been doing (I assume) a good job and then ask you to train the lucky winner says more about your employer than it does about you.

Paining by numbers interviews seem to have become very common in the last 20 years, which is OK as far as it goes, but is not partcularly good when it comes to detecting the bullshitter who has trained themselves to do interviews well.

I'm retired now but have over 50 years of experience in employing people and there is no way I would ever treat an employee like that.

As many others have said, be professional, stay calm and get the hell out of there asap.

It is appalling that you haven’t been paid for the extra time/responsibility while you’ve been covering the post.

But, please don’t refuse to help the new person get settled in and trained up. They are the person you’d be hurting the most, and they haven’t done anything wrong. I was that person once, and luckily the woman who had been covering the role and trained me was really good at getting me up to speed and helping me settle in. I’d moved locations, and didn’t know anyone at all. The loneliness had me crying in the toilets a couple of times in the first week, so I’m glad that I had her support. Once I got up to speed I did a really good job (if I say so myself!) and when I was promoted within a year, she was my top pick to get my job. Not only did she get the job eventually, but we’d built a good relationship and learned a lot from each other. I would sing her praises to other managers and departments, and she got a great reputation, which helped with things like bonuses and her ultimate promotion.

Does anyone know if I can be fired/disciplined for refusing to do this?

Yes, you can be. Most job descriptions these days include a vague phrase along the lines of "other duties as required". Even if yours doesn't, the fact you've been doing this job for a while means you have accepted it as part of your job description so you cannot now refuse to continue doing it. It is likely that an employment tribunal would take the view that training someone new in the role, even though you wanted the role yourself, is a reasonable requirement.

Your employer clearly feels that, once trained, the new recruit will be better at the job than you are. They may be right but they may be wrong. Interviews are not scientific and many interviewers don't take the best approach to interviewing.

If I were you I would see if you can get more feedback on exactly how their examples were better than yours. This may help you with future interviews. But I would probably also start looking for another job.

If you get fired, you may be able to argue constructive dismissal

No. You can never argue constructive dismissal if you've been fired. The OP may be able to argue unfair dismissal but in my view she is unlikely to succeed if she is dismissed for refusing to continue in the role and/or train the new starter.

I'm a total doormat at work but even I would be curious at this and would have left if I had other prospects.

I think I would feign relief that someone with the skill set they require is arriving and explain as someone mentioned above that you would be uncomfortable training someone in a role that they do not feel you are sufficiently competent in. I would also maybe say with a big smile that you are sure they have chosen someone who can fulfill the role and that you are looking forward to getting back to your actual duties. You could also add that it has been very challenging doing two roles at the same time.

I would also say that you don't need to refuse as such. Just explain as above.

I wouldnt refuse but id say it made me feel extremely uncomfortable and id ask them if they thought that was a reasonable thing to ask, or if it was an insensitive thing to ask. Shaaaaame the but v politely..

Stop doing the extra work

This is totally normal to me, albeit incredibly upsetting when you're the unsuccessful candidate. But in over 20 years in the workplace, I've never actually worked anywhere that this doesn't happen.

Been in a similar situation and I walked. However given the current climate with employment I really wouldn't quit without an alternative.
It's very shoddy treatment and I would definitely say something though.

That sounds about normal.
It happens a lot.

I really wouldn't play games, pretending to be ill etc., it can't end well. Be better than that. Just explain calmly that you are frankly offended to have not been offered the job, having done it without additional pay, and now to add insult to injury to be expected to train the successful applicant. That statement stands alone without any further explanation, and is perfectly dignified.

Can you identify a project or piece of work from your own role to keep you busy? Surely your one up should be training and mentoring them!

I don’t know how many times I had that... it is great when you end up with a nice person you respect in the position you didn’t get, but horrible when you end up with a fucking lazy idiot who spends all the day (every hour of it) playing candy crush, you are doing all her work but she introduces you to everyone as “my assistant”.

The only consolation I got is that 3 months later I got another job that paid more than hers.

It sucks but you have to suck it up. Unless you have cast iron job security, this person would be gunning for you rather than supporting you down the line. You don't have to do a good job of training her but you have to go through the motions. Only do the 'it is fair that you ask me to ...' speech if you have somewhere else to go to, otherwise you sound like you are questioning the judgment of the people who awarded her the job and they would consider you not to be a 'team player'.

It's shit but look out for yourself in ways which advance your interests, and don't burn bridges.

Happened to me 20 years ago and took my life in a different direction. I’d been working in accounts for a corporate company approaching 4 years, the pay was shit and I was doing accounts exams so I could go higher. My role then absorbed some higher stuff and an excellent opportunity arose that all my colleagues thought I was a shoe in. I wasn’t so sure and tried my best in the interview. Didn’t get the job and a lovely girl got the job and I had to train her. She had passed the exam I was sitting the next month. Boss said they wanted to beef up the dept with ‘qualified’ people.
I was devastated and after some reflection over the weekend I realised either I’m not performing (no negative feedback from anyone), not appreciated (shit pay), not acknowledged (didn’t get job I’m doing already) so I ditched accounts, privately night schooled a different career and left 6 months later a certified professional in new field. On handing my notice in - Suddenly they can offer me a higher salary and ‘create’ a higher role just for me. Stuff that. Took a 3k lower salary for new role.
New role my manager said if I go all out this organisation rewards. 6 months busting a gut the CEO calls me in and says we love what your doing, everybody likes you...blah....here’s 5k extra per year. I hope you stay a long time. Was there 16 years.

Let me guess...NHS?

You’ve got two separate issues - the unpaid overtime and the not getting the job / training the new person.

The overtime issue - you should have asked for the extra roles to be paid before agreeing.

You could ask to be paid going forward.

The job - this is the risk of agreeing to be “acting whatever“ and going for internal promotion- it’s more painful when you don’t get it and feels personal. But chances are your employer knows this and will be fully aware of how you are feeling. They’ve probably employed the person they think can best do the job -why wouldn’t they? If people only promoted internally it would be very limiting. You can’t complain - you knew the risk, it’s a bitter pill but you need to try to be professional- ask for feedback / career development ops etc, they’ll be expecting you too I would imagine. But most of all you’ve now got a nice chunk of experience when you apply for other jobs! Good luck!

That’s so shit. I used to work in an organisation and conduct a lot of interview. Social care kind of thing. We had to give the job to the person who got most points in the interview or we could get disciplined. So even if someone had awful body language and you knew they’d be awful at the job, if the said they right words, they got the job. All our interview notes were filed somewhere so they could be checked at any time. There was no section for any other comments or any kind of flexibility. Each question was marked out of 5. So maybe it was something like that. I’d still be furious. I once went for a job and didn’t get it. The post wasn’t filled. Then a week later it was offered to someone who didn’t even apply! But they didn’t offer it to me because I was the only person qualified to do my current job and they had to keep me there until new people had learnt how to do my job

Funny thing about interview questions and marking schemes is that they are very subjective. After I didn't get the promotion, I asked for detailed feedback and was given the marks for me and the successful candidate and they were interesting to say the least. Every question was marked out of three.

For example:

What is the first thing you would do in the role?
Me: Arrange to have some confusing signage changed to help customers. 1 point
Her: Say good morning. 3 points

What experience do you have of running a tourist attraction?
Me: 5 years as supervisor, 1 year as manager. 3 points
Her: Occasionally directing customers to the tourist information office. 2 points

What experience do you have running a budget? (There was nothing in the job description or person specification about this being a requirement)
Me: managing a budget of £80k in the current position. 1 point
Her: running a budget of £480k in current position 3 points (This was a lie, I now work in her old company and she managed a budget of exactly zero)

What is your management experience in this field?
Me: 5 years supervisor, 1 year manager. 1 point.
Her: 14 years manager in a similar branch 3 points. This was another lie. She was never manager only supervisor and the branch had closed 2 years earlier after being open for 8 years only. Both interviewers should have known this but were new in role and didn't.

Interestingly I now work for her old employer and have found that she couldn't do the job and was on the verge of being fired when she left.

Am I bitter? You bet!

Sign to a union immediately, then seek legal advice.

Clearly from this post, it happens a lot. It's a kick in the teeth to OP though.

I've had the other side happen to me in my latest 2 recent jobs. I arrive, come into positions and the person there refuses to train me, pass on her knowledge. Was most unpleasant. Not her fault, not mine. It soon became apparent that in both jobs management was beyond dire!

I’m sorry you were unsuccessful, that must have been upsetting. A very similar example happened to one of my best friends last year, so I think it is quite common. She was like you, extremely upset. She held her head high & stuck around, trained the new lady but did insist on the higher rate of pay for the time she was covering & training. Is there an HR department you could speak to? She ended up getting about £2K after tax & took her kids to Disneyland Paris.

It's wrong but in some workplaces being expected to train someone higher up than you is just seen as normal. It sucks and I'd do the minimum you can get away with to be honest.

Many years ago I was a teacher. I moved across the country and took a temporary job covering a secondment. The school had very strong "rules" that I didn't really wholeheartedly believe (eg every single subject had to be taught through the topic; you couldn't do any English or maths not related to the theme of the term), and much more challenging behaviours than I was used to. It was a steep learning curve, but it was a job. I was initially hired for one term but became aware via staff room chat that the seconded person would be away the whole year. I was wondering what would happen when I saw "my" job advertised in the paper; no one from the management team had mentioned to me that it was coming up for advert. I decided that they did not want me to apply, so I didn't. I got a job elsewhere instead which was a much better fit and where I was very happy for several years.

I tend to regard these sorts of things as "fate" which helps me.