I didn't get the job but I'm expected to train successful applicant

[Toblerone345]

I recently applied for a job at my current place of work. It's a grade above me and since the previous job holder left I've been doing that role without any extra pay until they could find a replacement. I applied for the job but unfortunately I wasn't successful, despite doing the role currently alongside my actual role. Apparently they know I can do the job well as I'm already doing it, but someone else (without experience) got the job instead as they gave better examples in the interview.

Until the new joiner starts in a month or so, I'm expected to continue to do this role (none of the duties are in my job description) without extra pay. I'm then expected to train the new starter to do a job that I'm apparently not qualified for.

Does anyone know if I can be fired/disciplined for refusing to do this?

Are you a trade union member or not?

A lot of your resentment seems to focus on not having been paid for the additional work you've done. It's a shame you didn't negotiate that at the time. But I would suggest that you write to your employer with a formal request to be paid the appropriate salary for the role you've been doing for the time you've been doing it; if you've been underpaid during that time then ask them to make up the shortfall. And if it's the kind of employer that pays overtime, request that too - otherwise do they have flexitime or TOIL or anything like that, could you claim back some hours for the extra you have done?

Personally I would suck it up and agree to train the new person, but only if management agreed to pay me properly for the work I'd done up to that point.

Oh and I'd look for another job, that goes without saying!

This happened to me. I tried to raise above it but the once I trained the newcomer she stripped me of every one of my responsibilities (in my normal job not the role she got.) She openly encouraged my team to go over my head and report directly to her.

Ten months later the company announced a restructure and my role had been deleted. I was expected to drop a grade and take very unfavourable terms and conditions. Including working up to 10 days on the trot without a break (full time hours) There was no opportunity to take redundancy, if I and my colleagues didn't accept the new contracts we would be fired.

I made it absolutely clear I would take them to court if I didn't get redundancy. They flatly refused to consider it until my team started taking me to their meetings to speak for them. They quickly agreed terms and I left within a week. Only one of my team kept their jobs and she was the least capable of the team but she had been sucking up to the new manager since she arrived.

I wish I had walked out when they gave the job to someone else after promising it to me over and over.

I now have an awful job in a contact centre taking abuse on the phone daily.

Similar happened to me a few years ago (although I was paid). I did exactly what PersonaNonGarter said; if I wasn’t good enough for the job full time why was I good enough to train them?

@AnotherEmma I'm not a trade union member - there is one for my industry but I kept putting off joining which was possibly a mistake. If I were a member of a union is this the sort of thing they'd help with?

I fel for you op ...an awful position to be in. However you need to be careful. Lots of people advising you to refuse to train the new candidate but this may not be advisable in the current climate. Lots of redundancies coming. To be perceived as unco-operative could put you in the firing line. Might be better to bide your time ...there may be other opportunities. If there isn't might be best to start looking around for something else while bearing in mind you will want to get a great reference. Good luck op

This happened to me when I was younger. I was one of two temps taken on to cover while someone was on sick leave for an operation. The other temp was absolutely hopeless and had zero logic (think filing something for a building called St Francis of Assisi Primary School under A for Assisi or P for Primary type). I had two weeks training and was thrown into the deep end just with hopeless temp to help. For £5 an hour.

Then after three months, once the person was back, they decided to move them to a new call centre set up and give her a team of 3 to help. I applied. I'd been doing the job for three months, all but three weeks basically solo. I didn't get it. Any of the three positions. To add insult to injury they then claimed that because they had provided the notebook I'd made meticulous instructions in when I was learning that it was theirs. They basically photocopied it and gave it to the three new starts.

They were then surprised when I didn't want to stay on in the main office for £5 an hour for a month covering everything solo while the new starts were trained on their 15k plus pension LA salaries. Not even when they said I'd "probably" get in on the next round of applications.

It's a shit way to recruit.

That's awful , why do employers do this to good employees , I would look for a new job sorry Xx

Op, I was in a similar situation. Years ago we had a position in each office that was paid an allowance to do some additional duties. I was interested in progression and when one of them went on sick leave for three months I did some of the extra duties for free - happy to for the experience. A short while later they decided to split 2 teams into 3 and create another post doing these extra duties.

My team leader even came to me to make sure I was applying for the position. I spent time quietly looking at the extra duties (it was reporting so looked at reports and how they worked etc) also spoke to DH who did the role in other team.

Anyway, day before the interview another girl in my office who had never shown any interest in the job was suddenly being shown how to do the job. We were both interviewed and she got the job. What upset me more is they said the reason I didn't get the job is because I hadn't shown enough initiative to find out about the role!

I got the last laugh though, about 6 months later there was a bog national restructure and the ability to pay allowances was removed and all jobs graded by band. Both jobs were deemed to be if equivalent value and so paid the same (and to be fair, there wasn't much more responsibility involved in these extra duties). The girl who got the job along with most of the others (not DH) decided to work to rule after that. I did point out quietly to other colleagues that I would never have done that ad I was interested in progression and doing more varied and interesting work rather than a few extra pounds.

So frustrating I knew someone this happened too and think it’s disgraceful- good luck in deciding next move

"If I were a member of a union is this the sort of thing they'd help with?"

Yes definitely but you'd have to join before there's a problem, it's a bit like insurance!

Still worth joining but they probably won't be able to help with this issue, just if there are more issues in future.

You'll have to check your contract and employee handbook as to what would be considered a disciplinary offence - the business may argue that refusing (what they feel) is a reasonable request is subject to disciplinary action.

If you get fired, you may be able to argue constructive dismissal, as they forced you to accept unreasonable changes to your work (e.g. by working 4 hours unpaid overtime per day), but you should really call ACAS to get some advice before deciding anything.

It sounds like a dreadful situation but, if you want / need to stay, you'll need to suck it up and train the new person. Go back to the interviewer for more detailed feedback, then ask your line manager for training, as you feel it's needed for you to progress in the company. It is reasonable to say you can't do excess unpaid overtime, though.

They’re taking you for a mug. If I got paid for going sick I think I might come down with Coronavirus on their first day

@214

Definitely don't take it out on the new person, and don't be tempted to take time off sick. I'd approach your management in a really pleasant and friendly manner, and explain that as they don't believe you're equipped to fulfil the role, it has made you question your own suitability to train up the inexperienced successful candidate,. You feel it would be best for the organisation that they either train them themselves, or find someone better placed to pass on relevant workplace learning. Thank them for the opportunity you have had to take on the role in the short term, and you look forward to getting back to your usual role and consolidating your position there. Overt politeness is much harder for them to challenge than if you were awkward and difficult. Be so good at your usual job that they look like the shi**s they are. If in 6 months it's intolerable. move on. I've been there and I feel your pain, I just smile and nod, work hard, and remember that 'No' is a complete sentence. Good luck!

@214 - I love this! @Toblerone345 - check out this great advice! If you like the job, apart from this shitty treatment, stick around and see how it pans out; depending on how your industry and/or household is affected by Covid, a regular pay cheque isn't a bad thing while you look for something else. Please let us know how you get on, good luck.

My last few roles have had job titles along the lines of "Senior [SoftwareName] specialist" and all the recruitment processes have involved a test using that software. In all cases, I've learnt after getting the jobs that none of the other candidates could even partially complete the tests. Imagine if they'd awarded someone the job just on the basis of an interview. It astonishes me how much importance some companies place on interviewing well.

From a different perspective, I am in the position of your current trainee..

I was hired (internal promotion) because whilst I don’t have the exact same skills as the team, (very technical) I do have experience in leadership and especially leadership in the type of team that the senior leadership wants my new team to become.

A person in particular, who didn’t get the job, is now making my life a living hell right now.. and quite a lot of people inside the team and direct customers of the team are also complaining about their attitude, despite the quality of their work still being excellent.

It’s up to you if you want to change roles, leave etc. But perhaps ask this person or their senior outright for honest feedback.

I am pretty pissed off that my senior leadership gave piss poor feedback to this team member and have left me to pick up the pieces. Better interview answers is usually a cop out for balanced feedback.

I will put my hands up and state that everyone in my team is more capable of doing the work than I am, but they also lack certain skills that I have been brought in to deliver.

I would have a very honest chat with this trainee and their seniors about how you feel, I would like to think your skills are valued - I have helped secure an additional pay raise for my team member, but their may be a blind side you haven’t noticed

Sadly this happens all the time, has happened to me--except I also had to train someone coming in 2 grades above me too. It is a slap in the face. At work, though, you're meant to be some kind of robot who doesn't have normal human reactions to things (it would seem!).

If you want to stay, you'll just have to do it. I don't think you can refuse on the grounds of not getting the job, without seeming really unprofessional (aka robot).

This has happened to me twice. It is so bloody frustrating and I’m starting to believe that my face just doesn’t fit...

This has happened to me twice, when I was the successful candidate!

The first time, the unlucky man was so lovely to me. An absolute godsend to me in my new job and I made sure he was repaid ten fold in the opportunities I made sure came his way subsequently.

The second time the unfortunate candidate was vile and did everything she could to undermine me, that didn't work out so well for her.

Rise above it OP, be decent and professional and you'll get your reward.

Happens a lot in academia as well to well-qualified, known and liked part-timers who apply for a proper tenure track job and don't get it.

This was me in the example I gave earlier in the thread of the job I didn't get - though I was fixed-term, not part-time. The really galling thing was that they were very open about the fact that she got the job because she'd been on a research fellowship while I'd been on a teaching contract with a (unfairly, looking back) heavy load, ie 'thanks for teaching our students but it has made you unemployable'. Also, she had loads of very bright and shiny ideas which very much did not materialise - in fact, to date I've published quite a lot more despite the fact that she'd had all that research time I didn't, that I've had maternity leave (I was 16 weeks pregnant when I didn't get the job, which I've always wondered about) and that I left academia a year ago.

On reflection, I am still a little bitter about it...

It kind of doesn't make sense to not be chosen for a job as someone else is "better", yet you're good enough to train them??

Why was the person who's job it was able to leave without having to do this?

Totally shit imo.

Good grief. Don't you want the person who can actually do the job the best, rather than the person who can do a fucking interview?

The people who got the jobs also do them very well, just because someone is acting up it doesn't mean they are the best person for the job. There are certain sectors where you have to follow procedure, and to be honest when it's a position for internal and external candidates it's the only fair way. Imagine you saw a job you really wanted, you had the skills and experience, and you went to interview. You did really well, your interview was great and you actually scored better, but we gave it to someone internal instead who is already doing it, would you then find it fair?

I bet you know who will be doing the job when the new recruit takes holidays.

@AnotherEmma Ah, that makes sense. Certainly no harm in joining - I had never really given it much thought until now.

@214 @GiselleStClair I definitely won't take it out on the new person as it's obviously not her fault and it wouldn't be fair on her. Your advice is tempting but I'd still worry it would look petty! I might just keep my head down and look for other jobs.

Stop doing the extra four hours as of tomorrow. Do what you can within your contracted hours.

I agree that it sucks massively, but it is the only fair way, it's part of avoiding jobs for the boys and all that. but it's shit for people like the op when you're on the end of it and have to go back into work with it all hanging over you. very humiliating.