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Madeleine McCann - new suspect

999 replies

KatherineJaneway · 03/06/2020 19:24

A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52914016]

OP posts:
Cadent · 05/06/2020 09:52

@leftovercoffeecake, agreed. And particularly keen to blame the mother, it seems?

AlternativePerspective · 05/06/2020 09:53

If he is found guilty, I wonder if all the people who accused the parents of murder and a cover-up will apologise. I doubt it. The people saying he’s a scapegoat etc are all in a different league.

But the reality is that in around 99% of cases where a young child goes missing it is either the parents or someone close to the family who are responsible. It is in fact why police often set up press conferences so that criminal psychologists can assess the body language etc of the parents in order to ascertain the likelihood of them being suspects.

Not interested in getting into discussions on the wider points, but it is logical that many people would have believed it to be the parents.

NameChange84 · 05/06/2020 09:55

There was a man who matches the suspect’s description watching and in the area of the apartment in the days and hours preceding the abduction. Pictures that have been released of the suspect in a bar show that he does have pock marked skin. He has a history of burglary, sex offences towards women and children, drug offences, possession of child pornography etc. If he is the man described below, he had a male accomplice. The blonde man was also seen at the Tapas bar where there was an open book with bookings for the tapas bar which noted the families had booked the table every night as their children were sleeping in the apartments. Kate always felt anyone could have seen that and it shouldn’t have been on display.

The information below isn’t hard to find. It was on Wikipedia for goodness sake. I think it’s very likely they have at least one person who was involved.

  • On 25 or 26 April, the tourist who rented apartment 5A before the McCanns found a man on his balcony who had entered via the steps from the street.[116] Polite and clean-shaven, the visitor asked for money for an orphanage.[117] On the day of the disappearance, 3 May, there were four charity collections by two men in the streets around 5A.[116] At 4 pm two black-haired men approached a British homeowner looking for funds for a hostel or hospice in or near Espiche, and at 5 pm two men approached another British tourist with a similar story.[118]

An "ugly" blond-haired man was seen on 2 May across the road from 5A, apparently watching it; he had also been seen on 29 April near the Ocean Club. On 30 April the granddaughter of 5A's former owners saw a blond-haired man leaning against a wall behind the apartments, and saw him again on 2 May near the tapas restaurant, looking at 5A. She described him as Caucasian, mid-30s, short cropped hair, and "ugly" with spots.[119][120] On the day of the disappearance or the day before, a man was seen staring at the McCanns' block, where a white van was parked.[120] In the late afternoon of 3 May, a girl on the balcony of the apartment above 5A saw a man leave through the gate below, as though he had come out of a ground-floor apartment; what caught her attention was that he looked around before shutting the gate quietly, with both hands.[121] At 14:30 two blond-haired men were seen on the balcony of 5C, an empty apartment two doors from 5A. At 16:00–17:00 a blond-haired man was seen near 5A. At 18:00 the same or another blond-haired man was seen in the stairwell of the McCanns' block. At 23:00, after the disappearance, two blond-haired men were seen in a nearby street speaking in raised voices. When they realized they had been noticed, they reportedly lowered their voices and walked away.[122]*

It looks likely someone was in the apartment. Look at the information about the open door.

  • Madeleine's mother had intended to check on the children at 21:30, but Matthew Oldfield, one of the Tapas Seven, offered to do it when he checked on his own children in the apartment next door to 5A. He noticed that the McCanns' children's bedroom door was wide open, but after hearing no noise, he left 5A without looking far enough into the bedroom to see whether Madeleine was there. He could not recall whether the bedroom window and its exterior shutter were open at this point. Early on in the investigation, the Portuguese police accused Oldfield of involvement because he had volunteered to do the check, suggesting to him that he had handed Madeleine to someone through the bedroom window.[42][68]

Kate made her own check of 5A at around 22:00. Scotland Yard said in 2013 that Madeleine was probably taken moments before this.[69] Kate recalled entering the apartment through the unlocked patio doors at the back, and noticing that the children's bedroom door was wide open. When she tried to close the door, it slammed shut as though there was a draught, which is when she saw that the bedroom window and its shutter were open. Madeleine's Cuddle Cat and pink blanket were still on the bed, but Madeleine was gone*

In terms of the DNA, one strangers DNA was found at the scene. It was a bungled operation and the areas surrounding were not sealed off quick enough.

Not everyone in the resort at the time was interviewed; holidaymakers later contacted the British police to say no one had spoken to them.[80] The crime scene was not secured. Police took samples from Madeleine's bedroom, which were sent to three forensic labs in Portugal. It was reported on 1 June 2007 that DNA from one "stranger" had been found, but around 20 people had entered apartment 5A before it was closed off, according to Chief Inspector Olegário de Sousa of the PJ.[82][53] According to Madeleine's mother, an officer placed tape across the doorway of the children's bedroom, but left at 03:00 without securing the apartment.[74] The PJ case file, released in 2008, showed that 5A lay empty for a month after the disappearance, then was let out to tourists before being sealed off in August 2007 for more forensic tests.[38][83] A similar situation arose outside the apartment. A crowd gathered by the front door of 5A, including next to the children's bedroom window—through which an abductor may have entered or left—trampling on evidence.[84] An officer dusted the bedroom window's exterior shutter for fingerprints without wearing gloves or other protective clothing.[53]

The Portuguese police screwed this one up big time. They were intent on finding Kate guilty, ignoring the clues all along.

We know this man filmed two of the rapes he committed and these were not unearthed until recently. In terms of how the police could be certain of how Madeleine could been killed with no body as evidence, there are other forms of evidence aren’t there? Photos/footage (but maybe these do not directly link to the suspect, I.e it can’t be proved that he killed her yet), conversations or web chats that reveal information that only an abductor or killer could possibly have known. And he’s bragged to at least one person that he was the one who abducted Madeleine although one that occasion he did not admit to killing her.

Initial newspaper reports said that the police had proof that at least one of the vehicles could be linked to the crime.

These current developments should be taken seriously and investigated. It’s the closest anyone has ever got to solving this in 13 years.

NameChange84 · 05/06/2020 09:56

Sorry, bold fail!

PleasantVille · 05/06/2020 10:02

@Homebirdafterall

I think comments from those 'smug' people who have never left their child in danger are actually completely relevant. Clearly there are people, like the McCanns, who think it is ok to leave their children alone so if the 'I would never do that' comments make them think twice and therefore potentially save a child, that can only be a good thing.
So the fact the MM disappeared wasn't enough to make them change their behaviour, they only thought about it when an internet random posted that they wouldn't have done it.

That makes no sense at all

EvilPea · 05/06/2020 10:04

Those poor twins. How on Earth you grow up in maddies shadow I do not know.

I hope the parents get closure finally and that she didn’t suffer. I still remember the gmtv odd phonecall they aired about her being missing when she first went and It was felt Portugal police weren’t taking it seriously.

Caelano · 05/06/2020 10:05

@caperberries agree with you about the timings of checks. There’s so much disparity in Various accounts about timings.

BlackberryCane · 05/06/2020 10:12

@AlternativePerspective

If he is found guilty, I wonder if all the people who accused the parents of murder and a cover-up will apologise. I doubt it. The people saying he’s a scapegoat etc are all in a different league.

But the reality is that in around 99% of cases where a young child goes missing it is either the parents or someone close to the family who are responsible. It is in fact why police often set up press conferences so that criminal psychologists can assess the body language etc of the parents in order to ascertain the likelihood of them being suspects.

Not interested in getting into discussions on the wider points, but it is logical that many people would have believed it to be the parents.

The thing is, there are lots of people whose active belief it was the parent/s has gone way beyond just saying that as there's no real evidence of anything, the dad is statistically the most likely perpetrator. The people who frame it like that are the ones who are more likely to accept a conviction of someone else. And there's nothing wrong with that perspective really: even if it turns out to be wrong, it's not unreasonable.

It's the obsessives who've invented spiralling conspiracy theories and believe themselves to be in the know, experts, seeing beyond the sheep. They're emotionally invested, and some of them have spent years spewing out accusations. They're the ones who are going to refuse to accept the idea that anyone else did it. Because after all, if it wasn't the parents, some of them have spent over a decade tormenting them with no basis. Of course people are going to be resistant to the idea that actually that was unjustified.

Caelano · 05/06/2020 10:14

@EvilPea Re: the twins.

there was a very strange post pages back From someone claiming to know someone who knows the family, saying the twins live a ‘normal’ life and no one is allowed to even mention MM to them. Hmm

I hope to god that’s bullshit because I can’t imagine what kinds of psychological damage it does to be forced to ignore the fact you had a sibling.

But on the other hand god knows what sort of damage it must do if they know the whole truth. They would go through life thinking that it could have been them that disappeared.

SirVixofVixHall · 05/06/2020 10:18

They did say offences against “little girls” on the news last night though, I am pretty certain. Not just “girls”.

I disagree with pp saying that the behaviour of the group with their children was common until this happened. I do think though, that there is something about being on holiday, that makes people in general feel safer. I have known many people take all kinds of risks while on holiday that they would not have done at home. Throw in a group dynamic where people are saying “oh this is fine, we are so close” etc, and I can see how someone might be lulled into a false sense of security, or be slightly pressured into squashing any little voice of worry, especially if any of the others have done this before and it has been fine.

While many of us would not have done what this group did , an awful lot of us have left children for sleepovers with parents we didn’t know very well, or not been completely clear as to which parent has a child. In a situation similar to Katrice Lee, a friend of mine lost a small child who drowned in the minutes it took to find him. Some of us will have left children in a car in a car park while we dash into a shop ( my DH did this, and I was furious, but he had at the time assumed it was a safe thing to do). Most parents will have some thing they look back on and feel relief that all was well.

Having a child stolen away is the darkest nightmare of all of us, and we comfort ourselves with the difference between us and the parents of a lost child, knowing deep down that we can’t ever protect our children against all danger. Seeing the face on the news of that tiny little girl is a stab in the heart of all mothers.

sashh · 05/06/2020 10:21

It doesn't matter if you think it was right or not, it was normal. It was stated at the time that they didn't use the listening service because they were intending to check on the children more frequently than offered by the service and - as listening staff were roaming the grounds - they would be alerted anyway if there was an obvious emergency.

There wasn't a listening service, there was a night creche.

They were not locked in, the doors were left unlocked.

I do not know if any staff knew there were children alone.

This is pretty unbelievable, actually. That I feel I have to defend myself for saying I wouldn’t leave my 3 year old and under children unattended in an apartment . When did that become a perfectly acceptable thing to do?

I think among this group of friends it was common, a sort of peer pressure.

What I never understand when people criticise the McCanns for leaving their children alone no one makes any commonts about the other families.

I think the people saying, "I would never..." are not actually blaming the parents, they are reasuring themselves that their child(ren) have not been put in that situation therefore nothing can happen to their child(ren).

In reality if someone is determined to take a child then they will. They may not take your child. Denise Bulger let go of her son's hand for what? About a minuite? If she hadn't then maybe anothother child would have been taken, it is not Denise Bulger/Fergus' 'fault' that there were people looking for a child to snatch. On another day it would have been perfectly safe.

We all have things we judge parents for. At least 8 children were left alone the night MM disapeared, those 8 are the group on holiday together, we have no idea how many others were left.

Does anyone know what happened in the next few days? Did the families still leave their chidren?

KatherineJaneway · 05/06/2020 10:24

It would be extremely unusual for someone who tended to break into rooms to steal tourist valuables to suddenly decide to abduct and murder a tiny child. Not impossible of course, but highly improbable.

While he has not been convicted, he was apparently linked to the disappearance of a 5 year old, a sex attack on a nine-year-old girl and exposing himself to a six-year-old. Could be tabloid rumour but certainly points to a man who could have taken Madeline rather than 'high;y improbable'. Anyway, if he had an accomplice, he may not have taken her for himself.

As we’re seeing, it’s looking like he only has to serve a year for that charge.

Apparently he is in jail currently on drugs charges. He has been convicted of the rape but cannot start his sentence until his appeal has been heard.

OP posts:
Caelano · 05/06/2020 10:30

Links? I’m assuming something credible, not the Daily Fail.

ItsSpittingEverybodyIn · 05/06/2020 10:34

I didn't ever think it was anything to do with either of the parents until I read on here a year or two ago about one of the tapas 7 (dp) and a conversation overheard between him and gm by one of their former friends I think her last name was Gaspar. That deeply unsettled me.

time4anothername · 05/06/2020 10:40

sad thing is, even if this man confesses, without material proof the idiot conspiracy theorists will still blame the parents.

I spent 10 years working in tourism and tourists resorts around Europe and Asia when young. In every single place there was crime, from petty burglaries, to sex assualts, including sadly and awfully on children. It's the perfect environment for such criminals to get away with things given the itinerant population and the relaxed atmosphere for the holidaymakers. However, great lengths were gone to to hide knowledge of these crimes so as to not halt the tourist money train.

PleasantVille · 05/06/2020 10:40

@Caelano

Links? I’m assuming something credible, not the Daily Fail.
Links to what? Isn't every news outlet reporting this, I looked at German news websites yesterday and it was on their front pages too.
7Days · 05/06/2020 10:41

He is an utter scumbag, no problem with rape. Experienced burglar and involved with drugs.
He may not have interfered with tiny children himself, going by what is known of his past crimes, but would clearly have no moral qualms about it.
He would know all sorts of the scum of the earth, he could be in trouble with them for drugs or whatnot and stole her to order.

Caelano · 05/06/2020 10:45

@PleasantVille I was asking the OP to link to the details she posted, sorry, should have put her name!

lovinglavidaloca · 05/06/2020 10:47

I think it’s perfectly reasonable that it’s expected that no one at school or other kids elsewhere mention Madeleine to the twins. I imagine as a family they do not pretend she didn’t exist and will talk about and remember her. But it’s not appropriate or fair for their peers to be brining it up I don’t think.

MrBennsshop · 05/06/2020 10:48

I don’t believe for a moment they have anything solid and are just waiting for one final bit of information from someone else to lead to a conviction. Sadly it doesn’t sound anywhere near that.

The police often know, or have very strong suspicions who committed certain crimes, it's getting enough evidence for a conviction that's the issue. What they release into the public arena is a tiny part of what information they actually have, and may be designed to bring forward a person who can provide that last damning piece of the jigsaw.

QuentinWinters · 05/06/2020 10:55

I thought the door was locked so the abductor would have been in/out through a fairly small window.

It seems even more crazy to me you'd leave very small children in an apartment with the door unlocked Shock I never heard that was the case

Peregrina · 05/06/2020 10:58

According to Gerry himself, first the shutters were jemmied, then when it was shown that they weren't, he said that they had left the back door unlocked. The back door access was nearest the tapas bar.

Caelano · 05/06/2020 11:14

@peregrina yes that wasn’t just tabloid stuff, I remember at the time family members in interviews saying the parents had told them the shutters were jemmied

Sauvignonismysaviour · 05/06/2020 11:24

This is haunting and devastating. Madeleine and her family have my utmost compassion and the whole case fills me with deep sorrow.

There really are some vile and wicked people in this world, no punishment is ever enough for assaulting, raping or murdering someone, especially a tiny child, it brings me to tears just to think of it all.

PennyNotSoWise · 05/06/2020 11:24

This guy was investigated for the disappearance of a German girl too in 2016, just read on the Fail, but wasn't charged. The case was compared to the Madeleine case. A 5 year old girl was having a BBQ with her family, at a forest apartment complex when she disappeared after collecting wood. Dogs didn't pick up a scent, which would indicate she was carried away, rather than wandering off :(

They found child abuse content on one of his devices when they searched his home.

Even if he's not involved in these cases, he's very clearly a sick fucker. Looking at the timeline of his crimes, he's had some very lenient sentences.

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