‘Teachers must run summer schools to help pupils to catch up’

[DNAshelicase]

...said the children’s commissioner. Uhmm no hun. I’m a teacher and have already worked through Easter and half term for free, contrary to popular belief we are not paid for holidays. If I’ll be paid handsomely for overtime I’d consider it but tbh I need a break. Wouldn’t get into the profession if we didn’t care about the kids but they aren’t more important than our own kids, the suggestion is a piss take.

I wouldn't kick up a fuss. I'd outline my concerns and ask for an explanation.

(Any time I've gone in all guns blazing, and 'kicked up a fuss', I've found that only having a very small part of the information upon which to form my impression, I've come away looking and feeling like a very small little dick. . .)

I don't think asking politely for what should be a basic expectation is necessary. I find it unbelievable that teachers can justify receiving full pay and 6 weeks' holiday while offering such poor provision.

My business manager explained it to me just the other month when we were working things out for tax credits. I'm in Scotland, maybe it's different but her exact words were that teachers are paid for 52 weeks but support staff are 39+ holidays which vary depending on length of service. Well that might be true in Scotland but it isn't in England. Been running payrolls in the private sector and local authorities for 40 years.

For a job that isn't 52 weeks a year with 5.6 weeks holidays you quote a salary. For a job that is not full time or not 52 weeks you can quote the full salary i.e. what they would get if it was fulltime/52 weeks or you can quote what they actually get paid so for a teacher they could work out what they would get if they worked 52 weeks a year with 5.6 weeks holiday or they can do what they actually do and work out how many hours they work in a year and quote that as the salary.

In the case of teachers that gets divided by 12 and paid equally through the year. I've had staff with term time only contracts, not working in schools just that the contract they negotiated meant they had all school holidays off, some chose to have their salary divided by 12 and paid equally over the year and some chose to be paid what they actually worked each month. At the end of the year it worked out the same.

Why don't all the moaners go and train to be teachers and you could show the teachers how it's done?

I've volunteered in schools, never worked in one never will. I could never work out if it would be more of a nightmare to work with little ones or stroppy teenagers but in my book they all deserve more money because I know I couldn't do it.

I'd then add a large performance-related element based on qualifications of the teacher and outputs like exam results, feedback from parents and headteacher, as well as qualities such as innovation and overall engagement with school life

There is already performance related pay, in order to progress through the pay scale we have to jump a million hoops, including all of the above.

But if you shore this up then you incentivise the wrong things. It will be even more results driven than it currently is. Different teachers have different timetables - even groups which are supposed to be similar abilities can vary a lot. I have 4 Y11s this year and 3 are supposed to be of similar ability but 1 will do much worse than the other 2 and that's nothing to do with my ability as a teacher. Groups on paper are very different to groups of actual, living breathing kids with different personalities.

As for the 20% pay cut, this is the equivalent of the much hated on mumsnet (and for good reason) whole class detention. So because some other teachers have done very little I should take a pay cut? I've been doing about 5-10 hours less than normal, but that's still over 40 hours ( a normal working week). Actually, the last half term of summer, I normally work these sorts of hours because y11 and y13 have left so my timetable is lighter. Should I get less pay every year in the last half term?

My wife has been furloughed btw, and is doing 0% of work for 100% of the pay. I'm still doing the 40hours a week she normally does so why should I take a pay cut?

Surely the solution for childcare over the summer is for providers to run socially distanced, only-local-trips etc play or sports schemes and for parents who need it to pay?

That's what happens usually over the summer. Or use childminders or nannies or whatever you want.

It isn't the job of teachers to solve every social problem that those with children have!

You don’t need to worry, my version of kicking up a fuss is exceedingly polite...

@FrenchSeal

I don't think asking politely for what should be a basic expectation is necessary. I find it unbelievable that teachers can justify receiving full pay and 6 weeks' holiday while offering such poor provision.

Well I always ask for everything politely. Manners cost nothing.

I justify my full pay because I'm still working more hours than when I had a job in the real world of 37.5 hours a week.

As per my previous post, do you agree with whole school detentions? So if one kid in a class does something wrong, should all the children be punished? e.g. no-one can go for break until Jonny has finished writing his poem?

It's the same thing, I should not have to be punished because another teacher in another department/school isn't earning their wage. And unless I'm their line manager then even if they're in my department I shouldn't lose out either.

@FrenchSeal

I think what really is needed is a new, more positive relationship between teachers and the public.

Teachers offering to take a voluntary 20% pay cut in recognition of their reduced workloads at present (with the funds freed up going to the NHS and perhaps some treats for nurses like meals out and weekends away), alongside a programme of summer work, would go a long way towards achieving that.

Would that be the same for my brother in law who is an optometrist for a well known London hospital who has genuinely been at home since the 23rd March on full NHS pay but not even ‘working from home’ because he cannot go in due to clinics not running and isn’t doing remote consultations etc. and has not had to be deployed elsewhere?

I would love to see your response to this but I would hazard a guess that you would ignore the post...

ChloeDecker

You have to remember its only teachers that are doing anything wrong.

I did say I understood it's likely different, it was the entire pint of my post, but not everyone on MN is in England, I've no idea if it's even the same in other council areas, I only know the facts for mine but you can't just tell people they are wrong. I absolutely don't think teachers should work through holidays, as I said our council did not allow it and put alternatives in place to ensure teachers received their full holidays. We are going back in August a week early and they are in talks now how to compensate for that so no one loses out. The teachers at my DC's school and where I work have worked tirelessly and I'm sore so have most even if it doesn't appear so to parents

I assume there are quite a few public sector employees who haven’t been working their contracted hours at the moment but still getting their full pay

[quote FrenchSeal]@penguinsbegin

Personally I'd like to see a competitive, performance-focused pay package for teachers. I'd pay a flat rate of around £10 per hour for a 37.5 hour week x 38 weeks.

I'd then add a large performance-related element based on qualifications of the teacher and outputs like exam results, feedback from parents and headteacher, as well as qualities such as innovation and overall engagement with school life.[/quote]
This is a shit idea and anyone of vague intelligence realises it, surely?

I've got a Y10 DS - who has done fuck all over lockdown, or at least the bare minimum he can get away with, despite our best efforts. He's angry, frustrated and fed up with life - but by all means I should ensure that when his exam results are pretty shit next year that his teachers get their pay docked. I mean, despite them setting work, emailing him chasing it, emailing me to let me know he has missed deadlines and getting his form tutor to phone to see if they could help they are likely to have failed to get him his target grade. How dare they!

In addition, they are unlikely to do very well with one of his friends, whose mother is terminally ill - or another one in their class whose parents have just divorced.

You can lead a horse to water - but if your kid fails to do enough revision or put enough effort in, it's hardly the teacher's fault if their exam results are poor!

@ineedaholidaynow

I assume there are quite a few public sector employees who haven’t been working their contracted hours at the moment but still getting their full pay

I wonder why some are deemed heroes with lots of praise, discounts etc, while a single part of the sector are villains....

Personally I'd like to see a competitive, performance-focused pay package for teachers. I'd pay a flat rate of around £10 per hour for a 37.5 hour week x 38 weeks.

I'd then add a large performance-related element based on qualifications of the teacher and outputs like exam results, feedback from parents and headteacher, as well as qualities such as innovation and overall engagement with school life.

Performance related pay already exists. Guess what, it didn't make kids cleverer or results better. It just drove out decent teachers who had a bad group for a year and were replaced by cannon fodder cheap NQTs.

My daughter, year 9 has done 2 hours work tops a day and run out of work. Just before half term her tutor called to ask how things were. I said I wasn't happy with the lack of support, not enough work and zero online lessons. He said that was 'above his payscale' I suggested he get someone to call me whose payscale'was appropriate. That hasn't happened.
My son, year 11 has had nothing to do, the college haven't responded to requests for reading lists.
On the other hand I've seen fantastic teaching and support for friends and familys children over the recent weeks. The inconsistency is a real shame, as genuinely great teachers with the support of good school systems will be tarnished with the same negativity of those teachers and schools not doing much.
This shouldn't boil down to blame or comparing industries but hopefully personal reflection at the end.
I hope good teachers will be proud of the work they've done.
Good teachers let down by their schools will hopefully look elsewhere for work.
Good schools with poor teachers will manage that through performance management
Poor schools and poor teachers will blame everyone else.

I'm howling with laughter at the suggestion teachers should take a 20% pay cut just to appease some of the public who think we've all been doing nothing!!

And a basic hourly rate of £10? Hahahahaaaaa! It's already hard to recruit teachers and keep them in the role longer than 3 years. I can't believe anyone thinks this is a sensible suggestion! It must be a joke!

As for a "performance-related" element relying partly on feedback from parents and the headteacher, don't make me laugh harder! You'd get parents voting for no extra cash for no other reason than they don't like you for no particular reason. Then you'd have headteachers giving bonuses to their favourites and keeping a close eye on the budget and denying bonuses to basically everyone. (Essentially that one happens already, so just shows that poster knows nothing of how teachers' pay works.)

I've been teaching over a decade with experience across EYFS up to KS2, I have a post-grad teaching qualification and a Masters. I'm at the top of a non-senior leader pay scale and earn £38,000 a year approx. pro-rata (part-time). I could have left school with just GCSEs and become a train driver and be on £40k after just two years after qualifying.

Tell me again teachers are overpaid.

Even though in my earlier post I said not ALL teachers/schools have been providing adequate home schooling, I certainly don’t think they should have their salary reduced to 80%

Reading this has made me realise that i have been too understanding and non questioning of my school’s approach, assuming this was the best they could and fairly standard, and am also going to email the head teacher to ask why online (recorded lessons) have not been provided, when other schools seem able to do so, and whether they are going to do so over the next few weeks.

This is particularly important for the next 6 weeks, or so when it is obvious the school are delaying pupils returning as much as possible.

Y6 - 11/6
Y1 - 22/6
R - maybe at some point after that

@midnightstar66 - That’s not correct in Scotland, either. Teachers are paid for 195 days a year (190 teaching, 5 in service) and 40 holiday days per year. The rest of the days (excluding weekends) are school closure days, for which we don’t get paid.

I’m in Ireland. The majority of students will back in some form or another in August but it is planned to bring in some students during the summer. This is not new. It has been running in Ireland.These are children with additional needs such as autism, and could be extended to children with Down syndrome.

That's different, is it not? July Provision has been cancelled, this is a separate idea. Don't ask me where they'll get the staff for it after the clusterfuck last year, a lot of teachers weren't paid what they were owed for doing JP and have sworn off all State summer work now.

Also as an aside your username is interesting. Is it cácacoisfarraige (translates to cake by the ocean for non Irish speakers), or caca (shit by the ocean)? Just caught my eye

Reading this has made me realise that i have been too understanding and non questioning of my school’s approach, assuming this was the best they could and fairly standard, and am also going to email the head teacher to ask why online (recorded lessons) have not been provided, when other schools seem able to do so, and whether they are going to do so over the next few weeks.
You will he given plenty of valid reasons if you do that, especially as you cannot compare Secondary to Primary age groups.

This is particularly important for the next 6 weeks, or so when it is obvious the school are delaying pupils returning as much as possible.

Y6 - 11/6
Y1 - 22/6
R - maybe at some point after that

Less so, when teachers will not be able to be in two places at once, sadly.

I'd like teachers back, shiny and rested, ready for the new academic year. Equally I'd like a holiday from supervising online schooling!

My year 10 gets 2 hrs work a day. It isn’t marked. As of today the school is asking each child to register by midday. Up to now no - one has been checking on my child. I’m very disappointed. I’m working full time so cannot teach him.

@Typohere

The supply teachers that haven't been used whilst schools have a very small number of pupils in could be used...

How are they going to be paid for? Supply teachers don't come cheap and looking at the accounts tells me it is not anything that can be afforded here any time soon.