What is the value of british citizenship over "indefinite leave to remain"?

[Ukelele3]

What is the value of british citizenship over "indefinite leave to remain"? Particularly for those who are from the EU and already have indefinite leave to remain and settled status.

Aside from being able to vote in the general elections, I really cannot see any other clear advantage to being a citizen of Britain rather than a permanent resident? So, why does it cost nearly £1,500 to get it? (I assume cost usually matches demand so clearly people are willing to pay this). Obviously, who knows how different things will be for EU citizens after brexit, but for now, you can still buy a house, get a job, etc. in the UK without being a british citizen.

Please enlighten me.

A UK passport. Allows easy return to the country if you travel and access and freedom (not hugely beneficial for EU countries but massively advantageous for non EUcitizens)

There are lots of reasons.

If you leave the UK for over 2 years you can lose indefinite leave to remain. Having British citizenship would not effect you coming back to the UK.

You can have a child outside the UK and they are British.

Plus a sense of belonging to the UK.

I am currently still allowed dual nationality

My home country wants to scrap that. But once you have 2 nationalities, you’re in and they don’t make you choose

It also means I am British and cannot be “sent home” if we ever get a crazy UKIP government or something like that. Or if they make nhs/benefits etc. only available to Brits.

The world can really change.

It’s like future proofing my life

Oh yeah I knew about the rule about leaving the country and the child rules but forgot to mention them in the opening post - say, I had no intention of ever needing to even visit my EU country of birth (now my family have moved over here), both those reasons would be void for me (I totally get they are valuable reasons for others who might still have family in their EU home country though).

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead I think mine is the same. I am allowed dual citizenship until the brexit transition period is over (at least I think so). I'm guessing if we get it during this time, we can keep both citizenships forever right or until the EU country passport expires?

It is for me (Dutch) OP

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead Mine is German so I'm hoping it's the same. The embassy is not hugely helpful.

We got citizenship last year, we are Germans, as I refused to live here permanently when they could change the rules at any time, it is just an empty promise they may refuse to honour it.

Read up comments from the 3Million group who has several members already having problems with their settled status as it is seen as 2nd class citizens and refuse to have their promised rights.

We moved to the UK 20 years ago and plan to stay so it was a non brained. Luckily we are able to keep our German nationality, that was a condition to staying, I didn’t take the British one as a replacement, just an addition for safety and comfort.

DD is born here under the rules that with certain EU parents who are settled, has the right to British citizenship.

Sorry, @porkandbeans, a piece of paper does not give me a sense of belonging in a society who is more and more anti-immigrants.

I got naturalised in 2018 and have had dual citizenship since.

The brexit referendum had such a profound impact on me and my family and I was unable to have a say in it because I wasn't British.
I cannot describe how freeing it felt to finally be able to vote in a general election last December (even though I was upset about the results obviously)
So having a say in political decisions is very important to me.
And, as a previous poster already said, if you left the UK for longer than two years you lose settled status, so this limits your options.

@Ukelele3 I had no problems renewing my German passport after naturalisation, I just had to mark it on the application form and provide a copy of the certificate.

@Ukelele3, sorry

We got our citizenship prior to BREXIT so I don’t know how the rules about keeping the German nationality is now. Normally you have to apply and pay heavily for it.

Check the website Auswärtiges Amt, they had more information than the Embassy.

Also, think about future jobs. I work for a German bank but under a British contract and I know there are tons of problems with colleagues without EY or UK passports. And our company is normally happy to assists with burocracy.

Thank you both!
@reluctantbrit haha nice username - I see your point. Funnily, I moved over here to England almost exactly 20 years ago from Germany too. Did you have any regret that you didn't apply for british citizenship 5 years after you got here when it was ridiculously cheap like £100 instead of £1,300+? The inflation on the price has been crazy.

One of the biggest benefits of citizenship is the British passport and all the visa-free travel that entitles you to around the world. Obviously EU countries enjoy similar benefits but for many non-EU residents with ILTR this is the key driver and this justifies the cost for a lot of people

I have a question - perhaps a really stupid one...

• can you not vote if you’re not a citizen?

I ask because my FIL has lived here since he was a child (50+ years) but has never gained citizenship, does not hold a British passport. (For the last year or two he’s been making mutterings about doing it, but as with most things with him - it has amounted to nothing thus far)

Anyway - he is a member of the Labour Party and has been for decades.

I always assumed he could vote.

Can’t he?

@AvocaLove It's not a stupid question. Is he an EU citizen? If so, he is able to vote in the smaller elections (e.g. local council elections) but not in the "general elections" such as the one deciding the prime minister, whether brexit should happen, etc.

No he can't vote in general elections Avocalove, only local ones.

You can't have a British passport unless you are a British citizen.

Nope - not an EU citizen either. He was born in (what was) Pakistan.

The main reason I can see is that you can participate in the political decisions of the country where you are bringing up your children. If many of my friends had cared about this before they could have voted in the referendum instead of complaining ever since.

@AvocaLove

Nope - not an EU citizen either. He was born in (what was) Pakistan.

Sorry, I assumed EU.

@AvocaLove In that case, he may be entitled to vote in all elections including the general elections as if I remember rightly, Pakistan is part of the Commonwealth right? If so, citizens of those countries can vote in all things a british citizen can (brexit, general elections, etc.) I believe.

@Davros

The main reason I can see is that you can participate in the political decisions of the country where you are bringing up your children. If many of my friends had cared about this before they could have voted in the referendum instead of complaining ever since.

Fair point too.

By the way, is there a difference in any way between a british born british citizenship, an EU country born british ctizen and an EU born british citizen who has dual nationality (e.g. their home EU country citizenship too) or will all three types be seen as completely equal?

Oh that would make sense. We have always wondered why he never actually got citizenship when he’s lived here most of his life - maybe it really doesn’t make any material difference to him. He doesn’t really travel outside the UK (think the last time was to go to mainland Europe about 20 years ago) so the passport thing doesn’t seem to concern him. It was the Labour Party involvement I could never understand.

(He’s not someone you could ask these questions of for various reasons - mainly because he would give you two different answers half an hour apart, and because he’d go off on a tangent halfway through answering and you’d be none the wiser.)

Because rules change and getting citizenship means that will never be a problem for you in the future.

You can vote without citizenship by the way. You can vote on an indefinite leave to remain status (for the Prime Minister)

Sorry you can vote if you are commonwealth and on indefinite leave to remain