What is the value of british citizenship over "indefinite leave to remain"?

[Ukelele3]

What is the value of british citizenship over "indefinite leave to remain"? Particularly for those who are from the EU and already have indefinite leave to remain and settled status.

Aside from being able to vote in the general elections, I really cannot see any other clear advantage to being a citizen of Britain rather than a permanent resident? So, why does it cost nearly £1,500 to get it? (I assume cost usually matches demand so clearly people are willing to pay this). Obviously, who knows how different things will be for EU citizens after brexit, but for now, you can still buy a house, get a job, etc. in the UK without being a british citizen.

Please enlighten me.

Only if a Commonwealth or Irish citizen. Full rules here: www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk

If you’re on Indefinite Leave to Remain and coming back into the uk from a holiday and the agent accidentally stamps a tourist visa in your passport it is a slow complicated process to get your ILR back, and during that time you can’t work or claim benefits.

Speaking from experience.

Also, it is expensive now (1200 or so) but under an anti-immigration party could go up to 10 times that

On a worldwide scale, 1200 is cheap

They could also make it more difficult

I needed 10 years of bank statements and bills and proof of private health insurance

Under a Tory gvt, the hoops to jump through will not get easier (the way the wind is blowing)

Saying that, I have quite a few European friends here who have faith they will never be kicked out. I may be overly cautious. Was just thinking long term and how quickly things can change and which way the wind is blowing re immigrants....

TheHumans do you mind if I ask you a Q - so they made granting you citizenship conditional on your having had health insurance? Is it game over if you’ve never had it? (For EU citizens)

Like PP, I see it as something which guarantees your citizenship status as it can't (or is very unlikely to be) taken away from you whereas IDLR can be if we had a crazy govt.

DH's family are from an EU country and he was the only one who got a UK passport. Cue lots of anger at not being able to vote, and BIL ended up moving to a third EU country 3.5 years ago so he's lost his opportunity to obtain it. We keep urging MIL to apply. She says she doesn't want to be British but we keep saying it's a legal status rather than a cultural identity.

Conversely, I got citizenship through marriage last year. To me it's a formality so DH, DS and I all have the same passports and can travel and live under the same conditions. I don't see myself as suddenly being from that country, but I'm very proud of my links to it and speak the language well.

I know someone who had ILR and was deported after spending time in prison. They had lived in the UK for 10+ years and all their family was in the UK. They have children here.

I don't envisage a situation where I would under thread of deportation for committing. Crime, but i would get citizenship of whatever country I was living in if i planned in staying long term.

Also, look what is happening due to windrush.

ILR is leave to remain. A passport is a right to remain (absent some very niche and serious circumstances).

My grandma who lived through WWII told me once to make sure I always had the same rights to stay in a country that my children have so we could never be separated on the grounds of nationality because a country can change overnight when you least expect it. She also told me to "collect as many passports as you can".

In addition, the British citizenship would make you entitled to consular aid if you were trapped abroad in another country during a disaster/civil war so long as the country is not one you are also a citizen in.
It may not add much power if you are already an EU citizen, but if you are say, Ukrainian as well and then get trapped in a bad situation in Costa Rica, having two governments and one being British giving you an emergency flight out or fighting for your release (if say you’re a hostage), is a good thing.

@velourvoyageur only because I had been a housewife/sahp for part of my 5 years (you need to choose 5 years to base your application on, I chose the years 2009-2014 as I had documents for that and private health insurance through DH job. You do not need to base your application on the most recent 5 years), note: if you’re in a FT job that does not apply!!!

Sorry if I scared anyone off !

Thanks, TheHumans!
That’s very interesting - I had always thought they only took into account the last five years (though I suppose you still need to have been continuously resident to be able to base an application on a 5yr period in the past).

I wanted to vote.

I also wanted to surrender my citizenship of birth (US), and needed another citizenship in place to do that.

I ask because my FIL has lived here since he was a child (50+ years) but has never gained citizenship, does not hold a British passport. (For the last year or two he’s been making mutterings about doing it, but as with most things with him - it has amounted to nothing thus far)

It depends on his nationality.

'Comonwealth' citizens can vote in UK elections.

So for the Brexit vote an Australian on a gap year could vote, but a German who had been in the country for 40 years souldn't unless they had taken out British citizenship.

Advantages of gaining UK citizenship

Visaless travel to more countries
Access to 'working holiday' visas in places like Australia
Consular assistance if you need it abroad
If you commit a crime you cannot be deported because of it
If you have dual nationality you have the choiceof 2 countries to live in even if the EU breaks up.
Access to NHS / benefits system if you need it without paying a surcharge.
If you are convicted of a crime abroad you may be able to serve someoe of your prison time in a UK prison.

Different people will attach greater or lesser value to the two options, and will decide which to pursue accordingly.

There’s not one “correct” answer.

My Mum was Irish and never had a British passport but could vote in all elections but the Irish have always had extra rights here, before the EU and presumably after. I've never understood why someone would live in a country, have children and bring them up there but not be able to participate in elections or referendums etc. My EU national friends just said they didn't get British citizenship because they didn't need it but Brexit shows how wrong they were, they had no say in it yet have plenty to say about it

One word, Windrush.

If you have IRL it can be removed at any time, you can be deported at any time. During an emergency no consulate help (look how people struggled to bring spouses home on Covid rescue flights). IRL also means poorer mortgage, loan, credit card rates etc. If you are IRL you have to pay the NHS surcharge no matter how much you pay in taxes.

Before I gained citizenship I could only spend a certain amount of time outside the UK or I would lose my ILR even though I have lived in the UK since I was eight. I have a job that sometimes requires travel my immigration status meant I couldn’t travel enough so missed out on some very good opportunities. A ex partners job sometimes requires 18 months of travel in one block, thats too risky as someone who only has ILR.

Before I had citizenship I only had a Pakistani passport, despite having my BRP I always had lengthy stays in immigration followed by interrogation when returning to the UK from holidays. On my Pakistani passport with a BRP I have always been interviewed before being granted entry to the UK, on my British passport so far I’m getting a 50/50 chance.

@SimonJT I’ve never heard of indefinite leave to remain status leading to poorer mortgage rates, NHS surcharge etc. Do you have references for this?

Anyone who isn’t a citizen is subjected to poorer lending conditions as our immigration status makes us more risky. Insurance is also more expensive if you have ILR rather than citizenshop/ The way ILR is set up the BRP takes weeks and weeks to replace so you have to pay the surcharge, it has improved recently. You also have to pay the surcharge if you have ILR and have started your citizenship application. Mine took two years bacause immigration kept ‘losing’ things so I had to pay the surcharge twice.

One word, Windrush.

The Windrush victims were citizens when they came here. ILR has nothing to do with their situation.

It highlights the fact that if you’re not born british you have to do everything in your power to prove your worthiness not to be treated like a criminal.

@SimonJT are you sure that’s for EU citizens too? I’ve been ILR status for nearly 2 decades now as an EU citizen but have always had the same options for mortgage, NHS etc as British citizens I believe.

Simon, sounds incredibly stressful to have the process take two years and to be messed around like that, at least you’re secure now.

if you are staying in any country long term and making your life there, get naturalised. Any descendants may also thank you.

If you are IRL you have to pay the NHS surcharge no matter how much you pay in taxes.
This is not the case. Once you apply for ILR and while you have it, you don’t have to pay the NHS surcharge.

You’ll be able to use the NHS without paying the surcharge or getting a reference number if: you’re applying for indefinite leave to enter or remain
www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/who-needs-pay

The Windrush victims were citizens when they came here

No, most were granted ILR. Most were not British citizens due to Jamaica’s gaining independence in 1962, at which point, all Jamaicans in Jamaica lost British citizenship. Only those who arrived in the UK prior to 6 August, 1962 were British citizens.

never heard of indefinite leave to remain status leading to poorer mortgage rates,

Simon is correct but it is mostly because of the way the U.K. does its credit score. If you are not on the electoral roll as a U.K. voter, your creditworthiness automatically is downgraded. If you are not a British citizen, you can’t get on the electoral roll. The U.K. also does not transfer or look at credit scores earned abroad even if it’s monitored by same company, eg Equifax.
This affects everything that requires a credit check. From getting a U.K. mobile phone, to renting, to mortgages, to car loans, to job applications. And because it’s an automatic downgrade by not being a citizen and thus not on the electoral roll, interest rates for any/all credit/loans is always higher for an immigrant than a British citizen with same money management history.