What happens if you refuse to go back after furlough?

[Daffodil101]

Just idle Sunday morning musing, really.

Doesn’t apply to me, but two friends in two days have said that their employer wants them back and they aren’t going.

One is an estate agent - manager asked her to start back this week, she’s said no. The other works in a nail salon, meeting with manager suggests he is looking to open early July. She wants to wait until October.

Both furloughed on 80% though I think the nail bar owner is actually making up the other 20%. Where would you stand if you said no to going back? Could they ask you to pay back your furlough or would they keep you on at 80% until October?

Of course business requirements would be the priority Marsha. For an example you have 2 people in your team performing identical work, business levels have improved but you only need one back. Why would you insist the employee with no childcare comes back when you know that they can't?

You will find yourself unemployed. Many of us who are currently without work are more than willing to return!

but that sympathy will not extend past June 1st if my colleagues choose not to send their children back to school

Oh yeah I totally understand that. As soon as DS's nursery is open I'll be sending him and going back to work (if they want me)

Greek if I only needed one back of course I wouldn’t insist both do. But if you mean how would I choose. I’d probably choose the one with no cc who needed it. I don’t know for sure hypothetically I’d have to consider it carefully, depending on other factors.

If they're both young and don't have any underlying health conditions that make them more vulnerable (or household members who do) then it would surely be treated the same as any other contagious illness that has a very small chance of causing death or serious complications. I think most employers would sack anyone who refused to come in because there was an outbreak of norovirus, for example, and they were worried about catching it. If they have skills that mean they can't easily be replaced (like the nail technician who's qualified in other beauty treatments) then it puts them in a better position to negotiate something like unpaid leave rather than outright dismissal, but I can't see how they'd be allowed to stay on furlough at everyone else's expense.

MarshaBradyo what if one is high risk but not shielding, the other no childcare. Which do you prioritise? It cant all be about who has kids.

Yes although I have children and am sympathetic to working parents I do feel I have to be sympathetic to non parents too

Flamingo my point earlier was the same. It can’t be just about who has dc. I said below but didn’t commit to that choice because other factors would come in. Not just shielding but business factors too.

Here's another one for you?

What about a colleague who's been working from home....whos now refusing to come back to the office? Despite all other staff who've been working from home now having returned. Plenty of room in the building for social distancing. Would you be pissed off if you'd come back and said colleague refused?

It’s been clearly pointed out that if you can WFH then do!

I think they'll lose their jobs.
If it's deemed safe and the business is open, there will be work to do, and of course the employees are the ones to do it.
You can't do it from home, so you'll lose the job.

They are entitled to refuse if it isn’t safe (covid-secure)

But if the employer can prove the environment is safe, then what happens?

People who refuse to work will lose their jobs. There are plenty of other people who are currently out of work through no fault of their own who will be willing to take their place!

You can't just refuse to work indefinitely and expect to keep your job.

@Daffodil101

Interesting article on this subject:

www.wired.co.uk/article/return-to-work-coronavirus

I know of a number of a number of employees who are signed off sick at different workplaces (education and not furloughed), either through anxiety at the current situation re Covid or anxiety at the prospect of returning to work.
No judgement from me btw. I don't think I'd be cartwheeling to return.

I don't know if your friends get sick pay, but I expect that is one other route they would take.

Short term they would have to take unpaid leave if they were asked to return and refused to do so. Longer term I would say they were in danger of being dismissed.

If they can WFH they are supposed to be allowed to do so under current conditions, or so I thought. If they can't travel to work safely, but can WFH, surely that should also be a consideration...

Thanks candle

@Daffodil101 - there's a little flowchart here that might cover multiple situations and likely outcomes:

Complicated isn’t it?

I take it they can both afford not to work then ?

So furlough is in place to help a business that is directly impacted by the virus and can't trade or has lost trade.

If the business is open therefore no longer impacted directly the employer would be committing fraud to carry on claiming furlong, so they could refuse but would need to go on sick pay or zero pay. Technically of course!

Personally I'd be finding replacements, if I'd made everything safe!

I would imagine they would be told they no longer have a job. I'm sure there are plenty of other people who would be happy to take their place!

@Footywife if you can work from you shlild continue to wfh. No one who can wfh should be back in the office.

I don’t think their employers would dismiss them, due to good relationships. The estate agent has been in her job for about 20 years and has worked at different branches of the company

Surely this is meaningless. If someone is expected to go back and refuses then they will be disciplined and ultimately dismissed. And being an estate agent, ie working alone or with a couple of vendors/ viewers at a by one time, is far safer than working in a busy office or shop.

I wonder how long "shielding" people will be kept on for. I mean what ifva vaccine never comes along?

Are companies expected to keep them on indefinitely?? Are they going to be on indefinite sick leave?