What happens if you refuse to go back after furlough?

[Daffodil101]

Just idle Sunday morning musing, really.

Doesn’t apply to me, but two friends in two days have said that their employer wants them back and they aren’t going.

One is an estate agent - manager asked her to start back this week, she’s said no. The other works in a nail salon, meeting with manager suggests he is looking to open early July. She wants to wait until October.

Both furloughed on 80% though I think the nail bar owner is actually making up the other 20%. Where would you stand if you said no to going back? Could they ask you to pay back your furlough or would they keep you on at 80% until October?

"Whether It will be found to be reasonable to believe covid is a “serious and imminent danger” I don’t know."

If it was found to be the case not sure how society wouldn’t collapse. Anyone else could claim the same. I guess it would take time to get the result though.

I'd assume that unless a really good medical reason then you wouldn't get paid? Made redundant? Sacked? Sick pay?

Reading threads on here there appears to be a lot of people who are happy to sit at home worrying and would stay home for months if not years if they could. I am sure some will take advantage and stay home as long as they can whilst leaving their co-workers to pick up their duties... that has happened already with some working full time through this having too much work to do whilst others sit at home on only a bit less money. There are always those that take advantage of any situation.

We are in this position currently. Employer is trying to complete a phased return to BAU with the aim being to get more people WFH and only those who HAVE to be in the office (because of DSE requirements ect) going physically into work.

The number of people refusing to WFH is staggering. We have a lack of laptops and so the business are sending people tiny desktops along with a screen and keyboard ect. My friend is refusing this on the basis she wants a laptop because this can be put away after work and has categorically stated she will not be going into the office.

I did tell her that if work can evidence that they can maintain social distancing guidance ect that make the office safe she legally can't refuse or she will lose her job. But she seems to think she calls the shots.

@Bluntness100 Yes, but the thing that worries me far more is that a vast percentage of the population genuinely think coronavirus is a death sentence. I think most people not wanting to go back to work are in this camp, rather than just being workshy. That also makes it far more difficult to counter and will lead to some very ugly arguments being out forward that turn this into a class war devoid of all scientific basis. However, there are also other issues at play: low paid jobs involve contact more frequently, and a larger proportion of people on low incomes are overweight. Those are both risk factors that are less prevalent in higher income groups. So....it's all going to get messy!

Oh dear this return to work will see the lazy and entitled come up with all sorts of excuses not to work. Furlough pay will enable them to do this. Stop the furlough pay and then see what happens. Maybe Univiersal credit will mae them realise that they are no more special than anyone else that has to work.

Sadly working alongside these lazy entitled individuals mean the hard workers have to work even harder. Employers will remember the useless ones.

I’m pretty sure it’s fear on the party of my EA friend. She’s bored.

I do wonder though if people would be less reluctant to go back if we hadn’t had such lovely weather.

Ask your friends if they'd refuse to go back if furlough payments stopped...! Ask them how they would pay their bills...

In their situation, I'd ask about unpaid leave for a while but I imagine even that want be a long term solution.as once someone else is in the job, there won't be a job for them. I think they may have to resign

They are entitled to refuse if it isn’t safe (covid-secure).

Nobody can be forced to work. But employers can't be forced to pay, or employ, people who refuse to work. Simples. They get sacked!

They are entitled to refuse if it isn’t safe (covid-secure).

Has this been defined? What would it mean for a nail technician I wonder.

The company I work for will be sending out health questionnaires soon to see if any of our staff have had any health issues while furloughed that will prevent them coming back in . ( not medical files , just gen health ) if they have they will be felt with case by case , if not then they we be expected to come into work as soon as requested . If they refuse the will be disciplined and potentially sacked. Regardless as to whether the furlough scheme is extended or not.

They seem very low risk jobs to me - doing valuations could even be done without much contact with home owner. Nail bar more risking but masks etc for customer and technician fairly ok?

These layabouts will be clapping the NHS every Thursday.

If there’s adequate social distancing etc, and work that can’t be done from home, then we need to get back to work.
Those who choose not to will be the same as any employee who refuses to do their contracted duties: gross misconduct.

I’m very pro the furlough scheme, and when you compare the forecast cost to (eg) the cost of Trident it looks much less unaffordable. But it needs to be an emergency safety net, not a lifestyle or business choice!

I hope HMRC goes after business who have misused it very very harshly.

@MarshaBradyo the government have released a number of detailed reports detailing what safe looks like, depending on the type of role.

The company will have to do a risk assessment based on the task/role and make sure that this is done in consultation with the workers.

Our company haven’t stopped working on construction sites and have just followed an extensive health and safety plan to reduce risk as much as possible.

HR have advised that anyone not comfortable with it will need to take unpaid leave (as we cannot prove there is no work for them) and those that refuse to engage with the risk assessments will face disciplinary procedures.

IE you can’t just stay at home on full pay because you are scared.

@Patchworksack a lot of nail shops ask you to wash your hands and usually wear masks. We have to start the ball rolling at some point if we was to wait till October they may be no business to go back to. Beauty is a competitive industry anyway and customers will go else where. It’s a tough situation but it does seem that a lot of people expect to be at home on going and get paid. I have been doing a job which I can’t social distance as I need the money if I would like to do things like go on holiday in the future.

There going to co.e s time soon that employers have to judtify using furlough money.

At the moment, if an employer doesn't have a full book of work, they could leave the more difficult staff on furlough. Though that will cause massive problems in the work place when people realise they are back, purely because they did as they should do. I suspect, HMRC will start spot checking companies. Perhaps even back dating those checks eventually.

But if everyonr is back they can't claim furlough for one person, if they have the work.

Employees may be given unpaid leave. Then managed out.

Lots of people on furlough hate it and arenr enjoying it.

But theres a decent amount that now believe they are entitled to it and will do anything to avoid going back while they have 80% of their wages.

These people caused chaos when we returned our workforce. Some had genuine concerns and we worked with them. But a decent amount just wanted the rest of teh summer off.

Yes, but the thing that worries me far more is that a vast percentage of the population genuinely think coronavirus is a death sentence.

I think it’s things like Mumsnet and social media fuelling this.

I have cut down my MN use about 90% because reading it all is just making me lose with will to live ...

Shielding is an excuse that won't work soon.

For a start, it's not a bloody excuse. And why wont it "work"? No doubt it will be extended in july and we will all have to spend a another 3 months inside.

They are entitled to refuse if it isn’t safe (covid-secure)

In return the employer needs to show they have taken reasonable steps to mitigate the risk. If they have done so then the employee either has to come back or lose their job.

Being furloughed will come to an end beyond the employers control so unless they take holiday / paid or unpaid leave with the employers permission or make other similar arrangements with the employer It would be gross misconduct ie refusing to work and they would be dismissed

I assume they'd get given their P45. I guess if they've childcare issues or health issues they might get furlough extended but if theyve no good reason not to go back I can't see them getting that.

Employers must undertake risk assessments and follow guidance on social distancing etc. However, employees have the right to refuse to return to an unsafe workplace, section 44 Employment Rights Act.

If systems are in place to make work safe then PPs are right. The employer decides when workers are unfurloughed. So if your friends don't want to return the options are resign, or negotiate a period of annual leave or unpaid leave.

I suspect neither will be in trade unions, but now would be a very good time to join.