Does anyone have a horrendous relationship with their 10 year old??

[Nuked1981]

Name changed as appalled I’m writing this.

Does anyone have a really really shit relationship with their 10 year old (my son). Just turned 10.

I just am really struggling to see the positives in him and he seems to dislike me intensely too.

I try. I really try. He is difficult at school but nothing to how difficult at home.

It’s more than that. I can’t bear how he behaves and some of his actual personality.

It’s killing me

Just turned 10 year old here, I have different issues in that he lacks enthusiasm about everything other than his PlayStation, he constantly puts himself down “not my fault I’m rubbish at maths” I try to encourage him but he’s sucking the life out me, he just seems so miserable, everything is a battle even more so at the moment, it’s exhausting to be around, I’m hoping it will pass but it’s been going on a while.

This thread terrifies me.

I wouldn't describe it as horrendous but I do struggle with my eldest, and honestly it breaks my heart. He is 11.

I'm very very cheered by tales on here of DC who mellowed out by their teens! I sometimes say DS1 has been a teenager since he was 3! He really acted like it.

I have a 1yo as well and when I compare photos/journal entries of DS1 to how DS2 is now it makes me feel quite sick with sadness, I used to have this absolute adoration for him, I am certain it's a hormonal thing, I feel this way about DS2 now (this makes me feel horrifically guilty - though I am sure it's a favourite age thing, not a favourite child thing - still). I do not even like the way DS1 smells any more, which obviously isn't his fault! It's just hormonal stuff and I did read that boys develop a less attractive smell to their mothers during adolescence.

BTW this is not new since DS2 was born/conceived. It's gone on much longer than that. I can pinpoint it back to the period of him being 3-5 years old which is a time I absolutely struggled and could not cope with his behaviour. In hindsight I was absolutely insane not to seek help with it, in fact, I remember having suicidal thoughts except for the fact I would never have abandoned him to be raised by some random other person, but I kept thinking it was all my fault, and if I could just do this or do that perfectly then everything would be OK. If anything actually things have improved since his brother was born as it's helped remind me of having these intense loving/protective feelings over him when he was very tiny. He also has a diagnosis of ADHD (as do I) but he's never had any treatment or therapy or medication etc, because it's "mild" and he's intelligent enough that it doesn't look like it affects his school grades. So everyone (except me) seems to think medication is a waste of time. I'm terrified that a lack of medication is destroying his mental health/our relationship because it's causing issues that make us narked with him all the time and it's not necessarily his fault.

I can look sideways at him sometimes and identify things I really like/admire but day to day, there are so many ways we butt heads and annoy each other, and I worry about him because he seems to have no personality?? Just latches onto anything he thinks is "cool". And no drive or interest in anything other than whatever is the easiest, most low-effort thing he can possibly find. I hope to hell this is just a phase of preteenhood that they all (or plenty of DC) go through because I am so afraid that he will just slide into a route of drugs/troublemaking and I should have prevented it by somehow getting him to be more interested in other things when he was younger.

If there has been a volatile relationship with the DC's dad beware triggers of traumatic memories as well. Again not DC's fault. (This is interesting- DH - not DS1 dad - always observes that whatever happens with DS1 I'm there blaming myself/repeating it's not his fault. I do seem to have a major issue with assigning anything as being his fault. I think because I feel guilty in general about the way I feel about him, and feel that I'm wrong and that to blame him would be unforgivable. And therefore I can't assign him any part of any blame. Which is probably another story.)

Smart But Scattered is a book I'm reading at the moment which seems to help but I haven't got to the actually helpful section yet which is right at the back! It's not just for ADHD children but any child with issues where their emotional/social/practical development is out of step with their intelligence which can cause friction.

Our biggest and most recurring issue is that he is completely unable to entertain himself which means that he is either badgering for screen time (and unchecked, would be on it 12+ hours a day and would go without sleep, food and bathroom visits in order to do this - and has done all of these things) or in your personal space complaining that he is bored, and if banned from complaining will simply EXIST in this massively exhausting manner, fidgeting, making irritating sounds, winding up the baby, creating unbelievable amounts of mess, asking absolute nonsense questions, etc. And I don't understand how to ask him to not do this, without it coming out as complete and utter rejection. So we alternate between me outright rejecting him and him being understandably upset by that, or me gritting my teeth and trying to ignore the annoying stuff, which doesn't make me want to hang out with him more, and then me trying to make amends/make it very clear to him that I'm not rejecting him by actively inviting him to stuff. But you have to assemble an entire circus of delights to get him to bite, and I find that exhausting - I did not expect to be a full time entertainer to an 11 year old, in fact he needs more concentrated effort to occupy than the 1yo does, and I can't do it.

Somehow in lockdown we seem to be coexisting fairly peacefully but not without the usual issues. It's better, much much much better than it was when he was five. But I desperately want to improve my relationship with him, understand him better/connect with him, whatever it takes.

Will go back and read more posts in thread. :)

yyy This, every word:

This is a really difficult age. It sounds like you’ve gotten yourself into a habit of tension- drama- explosion and then levelling out.
You can’t control him but you can put in boundaries that will over time work.
When my oldest was that age, the arguments would be a tennis match , me always responding , him back at me etc. I would give him a punishment , I.e go to your room. He’d argue, slam doors or continue to back chat. I’d up the anti and load another punishment on top and so on.
This was just escalating . What I learned maybe from super nanny or something was that once you’ve given the punishment ie go to your room for 30mins, that’s it. That’s the only thing you want to achieve. No more punishments no more escalating . The point is to remove them so that they can calm down and you can discuss the behaviour blah blah blah. A bit like the naughty step for a toddler.
When I did this , my son of the same age, escalated and escalated , shouted , slammed doors, I remember it vividly. My husband and I were biting our tongues and just kept ignoring him, apart from saying go to your room.
He did eventually. He wanted the drama, the shouting and screaming , when he realised we weren’t playing our role in that drama anymore he stopped too. It literally was like a switch changed in our relationship.
He’s still bold and needs punishing etc as is normal but the drama, shouting and screaming isn’t present . He knows I won’t lose it and in turn doesn’t push so hard.

DON'T tell him how hurt you are, DON'T let him know you have feelings, or try and dissect every emotion. He needs the clearest, calmest boundaries and no negotiation, no arguing, no engagement in the drama. I have walked away, ignored the screaming, sat outside the house, even sat in the car. I will not, anymore, allow myself to be drawn in. Just repeat to yourself in your head "this is not my argument".
I also became very clear about consequences and followed them through, but not in an angry way, in a more regretful, shrugging, well, this is what happens way (e.g taking the x box away for a week)

It's hella hard being a single mum of a boy, with no real dad figure. They are different to girls, they are. They need to respect you. You show no fear, show no mercy, feel no guilt.
It works, I swear it does. Don't try and lay on guilt after the fact either. You have to just remove your emotional response, completely. Act like a cop, it's procedural, not emotional.
Oh, and feed him more often than you think he needs feeding (unless he has weight issues obvs, but even then feed lots of veggies). I noticed that my skinny kid could really go no more than 3 hours without food before the moods set in.
I feel for you I really do, but all is not lost. Sending strength.

I know the thread has moved on a bit but yes I lost it regularly. Big time. I honestly thought I would have a stroke on occasions because my blood pressure would be so high. I'd be shaking in my room and all of a sudden I'd hear 'hey mum did you know insert random fact as if outbursts had never happened.
We are through the worst and today we live happily. I am not so naive to think that everything will be hunkydory from here on in. He's got a lot to experience (romance, failed romance, peer pressure and maybe risky behaviour) but from the pits of despair we are for the time being we are a happy family unit. We'll cross further bridges as they appear.

X post Bertie. I have the guilt too about the past, not being a good enough mum, all that stuff (and I suspect ADHD in mine too, although he's mercifully good at occupying himself it's incredibly hard to get him interested in anything constructive). The thing is, even though we most likely haven't been perfect (who is!) the guilt is not doing them any favours. I think practically about it now. I want to bring up a thoughtful, respectful man and me feeling guilty will not achieve that, so I have binned it. Things with us are much better (mid teens) but there have been moments when I felt like I couldn't cope with the meltdowns, in the past. Think I'm going to get that Smart but Scattered book!

My sons 17 now but from the age of maybe 8 onwards I found it very hard.

I will post more later, but I actually made similar posts over the years for advice as I found it so difficult. This was made worse when I had subsequent children who I felt very differently towards and both loved and liked.

Now he’s older we have an ok relationship I guess, but nothing like the loving relationships I see other mums have with their sons.

It’s very hard to admit not seeing Any redeeming features in your child, or being able to find a positive aspect of their personality, but I do think that it’s probably more common than you think but people are too ashamed to admit to it

My oldest and I really struggled with each other when she was 10. It went on till she was maybe 16 or 17. We get on really really well now. I adore the person she has become - she just learns things the hard way and it was a tough route for her to get there.

I was very similar to her, but I was too scared of my parents to really rebel. I console myself with the thought that at least she felt safe to rebel and let us know how she felt, some of the time. I actually wish she'd been more able to let go at us.

It was very tough.

Today we had a fucking massive "discussion" for ages over the fact that we asked him to take the bins down (his job which he chose, as he decided he didn't want to pick jobs off a list each day any more but would prefer to have responsibility for the same things) at a certain time. Mainly because he has form for leaving everything until the absolute last possible second and then just a bit more. I get this, I see this tendency in myself.

He answered that he wanted to do a poo first before he went downstairs. What the logic of this is - I have NO idea. But DH was bathing DS2 in the main bathroom. He refused to use the other toilet, because he doesn't like that there are sometimes spiders in there (even though there are none at the moment). So DH said OK - either use the little toilet, or take them down while you're waiting for this bathroom to be free. DS1 decided to do neither. So then DH assigned him another (easy) job later as punishment, which made him kick off because he "didn't understand" why he had to do it immediately or why we hadn't listened to his vitally important explanation of wanting to do a poo, because the bins would not have exploded if they had to wait an extra 45 mins. The argument that the poo would not have fallen out and followed him down the stairs either was lost on him (although did make him smile). Protests of "But I'm not the only person who is capable of doing the bins" (OK, but you are the person who is responsible for them at your own request! Aaaaaaargh!)

And yes as soon as he got back from taking the bins down he was all friendly and happy. It's so weird!

How, how do you let go of the guilt? It's hit me again recently how bad I feel about it because we decided to start potty training DC2 (he is nearly 2, even though I referred to him as 1 earlier) and I have been massively overthinking it, because DS1 was such a nightmare to potty train, and I think I probably did him a disservice by just being vague about it and waiting until he was interested, am being a bit more direct with DC2 and I think DS1 really needed that. But I can't "fix" my mistakes with DS1 by doing things differently with DS2. That's not realistically how it works. They are totally different people! My thought processes seem to go there every time, though. Argh I probably need therapy or something :o

You just do the best you can for each of your children Bertie.

I often said if I'd never had DD1, and just had DD2 and DS, then I'd think I was the best parent in the world, and not understand why others struggle.

I have come out of the other end of parenting DD1 with much regret for things I did wrong, but also massive pride that she is so emphatically who she is.

I'm not saying I never feel guilty...I do sometimes, but essentially I try to be pragmatic. Guilt doesn't help THEM (or you). Your son is not benefiting from your guilt in any way. In fact, i would go so far to say that mum guilt is a luxury that we wallow in. If you look at what is effective, what is constructive as you go into the future, then guilt just isn't.
That is not to say that you shouldn't take responsibility for the things that you regret, just that guilt in itself is not practically helpful.
My ds will also argue the day is night just for the Hell of it. Sometimes I think it's a control thing (so let them control small decisions as much as possible) and sometimes I think he is weirdly anxious about his own ability to do simple tasks, or anxious about getting started? I can be the same, so I guess I model that a bit (argh guilt! haha) so confidence in their abilities and in their level of responsibility is important.

I think you're right and actually the guilt is counter productive, it actually harms him. But I don't know how to not feel it, or not act on it if that makes sense.

Well I used to drown it in wine but, to steal a quote, it learned to swim! Just feel it, acknowledge it, then put it in the bin!

Sorry for derailing your thread OP!

I didn’t just shout
I physically forced him from his chair and pushed him, yes pushed him, out the door

Trust me - the guilt I feel about that is warranted

But... and then I really just go to bed!... I don’t feel as guilty as I should for essentially physically assaulting my young son.

And it is this that goes back to the core of my thread. This has been going on for years. He is very difficult and unpleasant quite a lot of the time. He really is. It doesn’t matter what I do. If he is doing exactly what he wants to do, all fine and peace reigns. Otherwise he’s tormenting his sister. Or me. And I just can’t bear it

@BertieBotts my son sounds very similar to how you describe yours. No interest in anything, no passions, no imagination or drive, low academic ability, no sense of self or individuality, also ADHD. As he’s got older it’s also manifested in depression and anxiety

It's so hard OP, but I think you really have to try and re-set every day. Try and let go of yesterday, and last week and last month, just treat every day as a new day, and one in which you expect positive things from your son.
I once posted in desperation on here and a wonderful poster gave me advice about positive parenting (praise every little good thing they do however small) and that's a really great thing to try.
The problem is you are hurt and you don't feel positive about him, but you have to fake it for a while. Every time he doesn't argue, or is ok with his sister or gives you a nice smile-anything at all, tell him how nice that was, what a sweetie he is, how proud of that one little thing he should be.
I honestly think a lot of bad behaviour comes from low self esteem, or kids feeling like the "bad one" in families.
Tomorrow is another day.

Sometimes you do have to physically remove them (or yourself) from a room, though. I don't think that is assault, any more than it is assault to pick up a tantruming toddler and remove them from a situation. The issue with physically removing is that at some point - and I think for mine it has started to happen - as an adolescent male their muscle mass will start to overtake yours as an adult female, especially if you (like me!) are fairly unfit. And then it won't be an option for you do to this any more, and if anything it will make things worse if they realise they can use their strength against you and win. So it might be best to try and find another way to deal with those moments.

It is the times where he will not leave that make me see red, I think because I fear I am losing control (and I am not a very controlling person in general, in fact I really dislike conflict and situations where I am required to take control, I'm not especially comfortable with it) and I don't know what to do to make the situation end. I sometimes remove myself, but now when there is a little one present this is occasionally not appropriate.

There's a quite old book now called Non-Violent Communication which can be quite good in terms of tools for conflict management. I don't know how well it works in stand offs with wayward preteens, though! I wouldn't look at the parenting stuff by them as it is more about toddlers and is not especially helpful for this kind of situation.

I finally got him in with a therapist in September but then she wanted to see him in the mornings, and I couldn't get him the time off school. I probably could have forced it but she and I felt it wasn't urgent enough to merit that, so we settled for waiting until a spot opened up. Then covid and so I have no idea what is happening with that now. I might try emailing her in June when they go back. DH thinks the therapist is overkill, but I am so concerned about the lack of interest in anything.

My dd who is 12, is very similar. She has Pathological Demand Avoidance which is a form of autism but it is all based around anxiety and the need for control. Look up PDA just in case anything resonates. I’m not saying it is that but we struggled for years and then when I came across PDA it was a lightbulb moment.

My 10 year old boy is pretty horrible right now. He's in full blown teenage mode, swearing and moaning. He's generally unpleasant to be around. Makes me sad. Hope it's just a phase, but he's been pretty awful for a while now.

This little boy needs a dad. Or a grandad. Or kind uncle. He is punishing you and acting like a total douchebag because deep down he's really insecure. Is there a mentoring / big brother charity near you?

But then again, armchair psychology probably isn't helpful. All I know is that boys act out like this when they're figuring out the limits of their power and control and when they don't see examples of good men, they don't know where to draw the line.

He's got a Dad (who doesn't live with us). Funnily enough he doesn't behave like that with him. He unleashes a lot of it when he gets home from seeing him. Always has done.