Why is horse riding/dressage acceptable, but Circus animals aren't? not

[00100001]

I was just wondering why we celebrate horse riding and even have performing horses in the Olympics. But to go to an animal circus is frowned upon?

Just to be clear, I don't think there should be horse racing or performance animals in the Olympics!

Am I missing something?

Wild vs domestic.

Well binary it's to do with animal welfare.

the conditions Animals are kept in, especially 'wild animals' plus the sometimes cruel training that goes into making them perform, which historically was/is very cruel, use of pain and fear.

horses prancing round in dressage are (usually) kept very well, pampered pretty much, the training takes years and years, through skilled riding and horsemanship understanding.

Although I don't agree with some training methods some use.

Most people that care about the welfare of animals don't support horse riding either. It's speciecism.
The same hypocrites probably think eating dogs is barbaric whilst munching down on bacon every morning.

I agree with PP. Dressage and show jumping horses are kept in very different environments to circus horses.

These horses have the best care possible and do not perform daily like circus horses do.
They can be worth daft amounts of money and are insured so their health and wellbeing is paramount. Circus horses are not so their care is not regulated to such a high standard.

I have horses and they do all sorts of things. They certainly don't seem to do anything that they don't want to. I imagine hundreds of years of domestic breeding means they are happy to be among people and to be trained. Although sometimes I'd rather ride a wild tiger than my mare when she's in a grump.

just to add though. There is always arguments within the horse world too, about training methods.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/03/olympics-row-over-horse-cruelty

There are many competitors in the horse sporting world I would like banned from owning and competing horses.

I suspect this is an ideological question from the OP rather than one where people's opinions will change her mind.

It's perfectly fine to object to horses in competition OP.

In my book Rollkur, tight nosebands, blood from spurs, harsh bits which inflict a lot of pain. Should be viewed fully as the poorest horsemanship around.

If you need to resort to these, then you are not skilled and or your horse is not upto the grade.

Making a horse do these things through these methods is cruel.

Yes I agree, but to be fair the vast majority of riders doing dressage in pony clubs and riding clubs in this country don't do those things and they are banned anyway.

Tonyaster They are banned in the ring, but not in training. and I think tight nosebands and types of bits are still not banned.

I know and agree about the majority too. but OP was talking about top level Olympic riders.

Domestic/professional horses live in stables, which are much larger than a trailer and generally have access to fields etc, get out for a run regularly. I am sure some people abuse their horses, but a good standard of living is absolutely achieveable in a stable/yard/field type of environment. I'm not sure you can say the same for much larger animals living in accommodation which has to be easily movable etc. It would be like expecting a horse to live in a horse box all the time, that wouldn't be fair.

I wouldn't object to the use of smaller, easily trainable animals in circuses - dogs for example can be trained to perform very nicely and without the use of pain/fear type techniques, and can also be perfectly happy living in a caravan sort of environment, as long as they have human company and get out regularly for walks, which would be totally achievable - you don't tend to see circus tigers, elephants being taken for walks! How could you do that? It wouldn't be safe for the animals or the general public. And it's cruel to keep such a large animal cooped up in a trailer all the time except when they are performing. You couldn't have an elephant or a tiger living with the circus performers/trainers in the way a dog can, because they're just too big.

I don't know much about horse training so I have no idea if things have moved on from pain/fear/force - I hope so. I would like to see that kind of training outlawed anyway and if it means that we lose any type of animal-based entertainment, that's fine by me. I also don't know enough about horse keeping to be able to judge whether they could have a decent standard of living on the move. If the animals can be trained in a respectful way and have a good standard of living, then there's no moral issue with it IMO. But I just don't think this is possible with the larger animals associated historically with circuses.

Dogs, small monkey breeds, birds, rats, maybe horses - all seem reasonable for circuses to me but I think as things currently stand it's probably just easier to have a blanket ban than to specify that it's OK as long as the animal has a decent standard of living and is trained ethically.

She was talking about "celebrating horse riding".

I'm not Olympic level so can't speak for them, but it's considered very poor form to train at pony club or riding club level with any of the things you've mentioned.

Tonyaster I unfortunately do get to see it at top level though. The pressure to be the best means some will do whatever it takes, sadly, and more people are willing to turn a blind eye the higher you go.

Obviously not everyone at this level though, I did originally same some

*say not same

Definitely not all. In fact I can't think of a modern GB dressage or event rider where this would happen regularly in training. There isn't a conspiracy.

I'm sure there's the odd one or two. But that's a very different thing to the majority of horseriders in the country, so banning riding because of a few bad apples would be like banning mumsnet because a few people are trolls/start goady threads.

There are just under 850,000 horses in the UK. If horses riding/keeping was banned does any of the people that demonize it wonder what would happen to them?

I think people think they'd run free over the hills.

Money and perception.

Horse racing for example is celebrated whilst dog racing is almost non existent comparatively. That’s because of the income the former generates plus it’s perception as an upper class activity.

From an ideological perspective there’s very little difference in keeping any animal for entertainment purposes.

just to be clear I don't want it banned!

I do think that because horses have been a domesticated animal for 3 to 4,000 years has almost to do with it.
Exotic circus animals are not in their natural environment - and it is wrong to keep them so as to provide us with entertainment

Personally I think it is better for a horse to be ridden regularly than stand in a field all its life

I'm not convinced that wild ponies on Dartmoor are particularly healthy, nor have a better life.

New sorry my comment was not directed at you.
It's something I have heard said by others in my real life

Horses were born to run, so horse racing is acceptable as long as the animals are treated well.

"Horses were born to run, so horse racing is acceptable as long as the animals are treated well."

"Horses were born to run, so horse racing is acceptable as long as the animals are treated well."
They aren't though are they? On the surface they are pampered and "treated like royalty". In practice that means that they are fed to force early growth, made to carry weight and go into training before their growth plates are fused, before their back is properly developed, essentially when they are still far too young. They are shut in stables for long periods of time. Often develop ulcers and the sort of stereotypical behaviours that are regarded with horror in zoo animals. (Repetitive swaying, box walking, gnawing on wood, wind sucking, shutting down and sleeping for protracted periods of time...).
Many young racehorses don't make it to their first race. Many end up going for meat. The lucky ones are taken on by people who rehabilitate them for a more normal life.
It's shit being a racehorse.