Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

Given the widescale abuse of children and that statistically males are more likely to commit those offences I'm not surprised OP is concerned. I was molested on guide camp by the husband of one of the leaders. Enforcing a blanket ban on males would keep girls safer but too often it seems people want to prioritise male feelings over safety. I would question why a young man wants to work with young girls. The organisation I work for recruits and trains young people to deliver training sessions. In the last five years all recruits bar one have been female which reflects the sex balance of applicants. Out of all our (DBS checked) previous staff guess which one was in court and convicted earlier this year for posessing images of child sex abuse? Lovely, lovely chap, volunteered with lots of children's charities btw.

It's guiding, OP - they don't have to tell parents if a male-bodied trans person is sharing a tent with their DDs, so I don't know why you thought they'd make a point of telling you about Dave.

Wanting single-sex spaces is so last year.

Whaaat? How about female volunteers at a male club? How about make teachers in girls schools. This is misandry.

Jesus not everyone is a peadophile!

As a mum of teen boys this thread makes me despair 😩

It’s no wonder child abuse is rife with the minimising and deliberate misunderstanding going on here. So we are now not even allowed to verify if someone has been DBS checked now? Fgs. It’s nothing personal.

Males as a class are a greater risk than females. Why is everyone falling over themselves to pretend this isn’t the case?

OP, you keep on. Good work.

@DontDribbleOnTheCarpet thank you so much for your post. You have laid out my feelings quite well. As you can imagine due to the vitriol on this thread I won't be going into why dd2 might need a female space sadly

I really don't understand what the issue is. Loads of women run and support 'boys' groups like cubs and beavers, even some boys football teams have female coaches. No one bats an eyelid because its is the norm for women to take the role as childcare providers. Yet when a man takes on this role, he's seen as a threat. Equality works both ways. At the same time as encouraging women and girls to be strong, we need to encourage men and boys that it's ok to be gentle and nurturing.

I do understand the point about the importance of female only spaces, but I think that applies to the children who attend the group, not the adult leaders. Many young girls don't have many male role models (absent fathers, female teachers, etc). I believe male role models can be a really positive influence.

@fascinated thank you

I agree fascinated

Whaaat about RTFT Beardy ? You'll find it answers your questions.

Has anyone else noticed how any thread on here that tries to centre women whether it be their concerns or their experiences is jumped on now? It's odd how people rush to be considerate of an absent male's feelings whilst failing to take into account the feelings of the OP who is actually here and posting.

Mums of boys should be educating them about these issues and explaining that a decent man accepts the need for caution around safeguarding. He doesn’t start whining that he is somehow a special case who should be exempt from checks that apply to everyone. The whole point is that you can’t tell a predator by looking at them. So everyone has to submit to the system. It’s a bit like airport security.

And yes, males ARE responsible for something like 97% of sexual crime. How is it a misuse of statistics to point that out? How? The naïveté.

Lovely chap round our way has recently been charged with possessing/producing child images and other much worse things.

He was a scout leader, helped out with his wifes brownie group, very active in a local childrens charity and in my dd's playground was always chatting with other parents/teachers and on hand to help (PTA).

Seemed like Dad of the year. His close friends can't get over it, he was trusted.

From my personal experience as a child I think any boy/man actively seeking out a variety of ways to be with children is dodgy as fuck. I have a Dad, husband, male friends, son. I don't hate men at all, just noticed that the decent ones seem to instinctively know to avoid putting others in uncomfortable situations.

You know Brownies don't have staff right? Well they will have in UK HQ but normal leaders are all unpaid volunteers. Maybe you should volunteer for the next 4 weeks.

OP he hasn't stated he's on a Girl Guiding specific work placement has he so why would you need to go to GGHQ to confirm such a thing exists? He could be on a work placement that requires him to work with different groups of children to widen his experience. That's all by the by anyway, he's perfectly entitled to help even if he isn't on a work placement. All leaders are DBS checked and we're not staff FYI we're volunteers. Of which he is currently one spending his own time helping at a pack. He's helping at pack meetings, where there are stringent safe guarding rules in place and ratios etc. I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill with this one.

Yes youth work placements are common at all youth groups that rely on volunteers, e.g. guides, brownies, rainbows, cubs, scouts, air cadets, etc.

DD did work experience at brownies for part of her Duke of Edinburgh award and carried on volunteering there. She has been a regular volunteer for 2 years now and is going to work towards being a Young Leader in the Girl Guiding program. Lots of her friends did similar work experience placements.

He doesn’t start whining that he is somehow a special case who should be exempt from checks that apply to everyone

This young man is neither whining or thinking he should be exempt from checks. He's had the damn checks. It's OP who's whining.

The imbalance in risk profiles is startling, indeed. And I think, ultimately, that this will present an issue in terms of equality vis a vis caring roles unless males somehow suddenly stop committing sexual abuse. The very few females that have been convicted of sexual crimes are the exception that proves the rule, and many if not most were found to be acting in concert with a male, or even a victim themselves coerced into abusing children.

Facts are facts. Ignoring reality tends to cause problems for humans in the long run.

Bingo — Sara doesn’t understand theoretical examples in an argument.

Why on earth is it so shocking that a man might want to work with children? This place is so depressingly sexist.

think any boy/man actively seeking out a variety of ways to be with children is dodgy as fuck

Omfg.

It’s funny how often you read about the „lovely chaps“ being found out, eh?

Yet another thread where men’s feelings come before females.

Poor man, he can't play team games for an hour with Brownies without being suspected of being a paedophile!
And if it's a work placement, maybe Brownies wouldn't have been his first choice either!
But I guess the answer is to volunteer yourself rather than criticise those who do.

@Delaneyblue thanks that's quite helpful in understanding the possible context of the placement.