Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

I agree. Brownies should be a female only space, not because of potential abuse, but because this allows girls a and women leaders space away from boys and men.

It’s really positive for girls to interact/work in female only spaces it fosters lots of positive things. I think if they have to include adult males because otherwise they’d close it undesirable but unavoidable. If it’s a choice I think it’s a shame.

Guiding is a girls only safe space. Could you please report your findings to guiding HQ?

No it isn't. I personally know male Brownie and Guide leaders.

It’s really positive for girls to interact/work in female only spaces it fosters lots of positive things.

Hahaha

You really didn’t go to a girls only school did you.

The simplest question for you to answer OP to understand what your issue is, is this...had you arrived and it was "Debbie" who was there, who you had not been "warned" was coming for Work Study for 4 weeks, would you have asked BO the same questions? Would you be posting this post venting about not being warned about "Debbie" showing up to help out? If the answer is No, then obviously most of us have it right and you think poor Dave is a threat because he is Male and not because you were not "warned" (warned about what exactly?)

Has everyone missed the bit in the OP where the OP said the male volunteer came up to her DD and touched her shoulder? I wouldn't have a problem with a male volunteer but this would be a red flag for me. I wouldn't expect a male teacher to touch my daughter unless necessary, and this was not necessary. I would be concerned that he had not had sufficient training around boundaries.

LittleBear you're wrong. It's not just in STEM subjects. It's across the spectrum.
It's also a fact that when GG surveyed their members (the girls who attend) that they voted consistently for the organisation to be single-sex because they recognised boys and men changed the dynamic; because they wanted to be able to discuss issues that mattered to them without having to bow to social conditioning that states they have to centre the male experience, etc. It's why they didn't change their membership policy when the Scouts did.

Boys and Men are allowed in Brownies and Guides now; it's been their policy since 2018, not just as leaders but as members.

The new Girl Guiding policy that was released last year enables any boy who identifies as a girl, and any man who identifies as a woman, join the group as a Brownie/Guide or Leader. The Policy states, quite clearly, that parents do not need to be informed of this, including away camps.
There are some that say that this contradicts safe-guarding principles, indeed 2 senior Guide leaders who questioned this were kicked out. I know it's different to what you've raised, but this is worth a read @nevernotstruggling

I'd question why a transwoman (ie a man) would want access to young girls.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/girlguiding-transgender-policy-debate_uk_5bab97d7e4b082030e771cea

In my experience a lot of the male volunteers tend to be the husbands and sons of female leaders filling a gap because of a lack of volunteers. Don't like men in guiding? perhaps you should get off your arse and give up your time to give these girls the chance to do fun activities and build friendships.

Tif I've not read the entire thread..
What about Women/Mums running/helping out at beavers/cubs etc
It's quite possible that they could pose a risk..
It's not just men that are paedophiles.

where have I suggested that Dave is a risk

Where you said that parents should have been "warned"

@Wa1kthisway I will be instigating a conversation with GGHQ yes. Mainly because I can't identify this 'work placement' 4 week business with GG. I suspect it may be part of the church youth programme though their website simply states brownies is an external organisation.

I left because of this; twitter.com/MsHelenWatts/status/1061730116752027648

@LittleBearPad yes I did and went on to study a stem subject at Uni and now earn my living in a male dominated industry.

To be fair..not tif

Yy I made the point earlier that they're single 'gender' now and not single sex. But male volunteers existed when they were single sex.

As for the DBS question - it was the most common question we were asked when I was involved with GG. Lots of parents are quite vocal about finding out whether the adults around their DCs are DBS checked.

LittleBear you're wrong. It's not just in STEM subjects. It's across the spectrum.

It was a general, anecdotal, bored on a Friday night observation because girls in mixed schools are more likely to think maths, science are ‘boy subjects’. In a girls only school this won’t happen as there are no boys.

However Dave is clearly a raging deviant, will damage the girls prospects of achieving anything ever and has no boundaries and Brown Owl, a likely harrassed volunteer, is going to be reported to HQ for allowing a man into a safe space - read shit scout hut. So I think this thread is batshit.

@Acunningruse all
Posters but you have ignored this.

(directed at OP not PP)

www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/blogs/dads-love-volunteering/

"Ian started helping out at his daughter’s Brownie unit once and month and now is a full unit helper
'The DBS check was processed and before I knew it I was stood in front of 24 girls which was a little daunting! I thoroughly enjoyed the 90 minutes, so much so, that I offered to help every week and became a full unit helper."

RedElephants 97% of all sexual assault crimes are committed by men, and remember, only men can rape. When I was Tawny Owl I came across a Scout Leader who tried to encourage girls to wear leggings with their (short) shirts instead of jeans or trousers.

But yes saraclara that is a lovely story. Very different if your child is there.