Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

@AnneOfTeenFables yeh that's pretty much it

@partofthepeanutgallery where have I suggested that Dave is a risk?

What happens in Scouts isn't relevant. The Scouts voted to let girls join. The members of GG have consistently voted to have a single sex space. Yy CHQ threw that out the window when they adopted the TWAW mantra but that doesn't change why the majority of girls picked GG rather than the Scouts.

Are you suggesting people can’t tell if other people are biologically female, saraclara? I doubt that’s the case.

I agree that it will change the dynamic having a male worker there. Not ideal as for brownies most are looking for a female environment. It’s a bit like if you meet up with your female friends and one of them brings their partner. It’s not about him leaping on you . It’s just different.

where have I suggested that Dave is a risk?

When you demanded to know if he was DBS checked.

If he's on placement, he's probably been sent there as part of his youth work course. Most courses like this have placements/volunteering. Perhaps they have only just started doing placements at this brownies, can be a good way to get volunteers in (and they may get paid for it). Looking at the Girl Guiding website it looks like they have no issue with male volunteers and also a thorough process for vetting and recruiting volunteers. What would you have done if they had put an a little announcement on the facebook group? Do they put announcements on for other volunteers etc?

When i did 3 years of (boy) cubs in the 80s the two main leaders were female, but that's ok because men are pedos or something

Girl guiding has male leaders and volunteers and has done for ages. One the senior leaders at DDs Brownies is male, he is the son of Brown Owl and he has done it for years. We've had a male leader from another group helping our from time to time as well.
I have no idea why you think you should have been told, would you care about a female volunteer.

Cubs are mixed sex, not single.

'Dave' might be non-binary - they might not identify as male or check the pronouns.

Nowhere has OP said men are a risk. She asked if a new volunteer was DBS checked. That's quite a common question.
It's also fine for girls and women to want a single-sex space.It's not about risk. It's about a different environment. It's about all the statistics that prove girls act differently in mixed sex environments and perform better in single sex ones. In fact, it's exactly what GG members voted for year on year.

I hate parents like you, OP we all know what you mean. Disgraceful

Enlighten me.

A MAN 😲 Goodness me what is the world coming to!

You just being rather silly! Especially as you say you don’t think he’s a risk and frankly if he’s called Dave he’s unlikely to be non-binary

Tbh it would make me a bit uncomfortable too - I’d question why Dave wants to be there (unless he is a dad of one of the brownies).

Yes, clearly Dave is a raging paedophile or worse

I’m amazed a senior leader at your daughters brownies is a man. I had no idea that was allowed. In my day (a long time ago) it was all female.

Oh ffs! He's doing a related qualification and is doing work experience. No wonder males are under represented in primary age educational roles.

And if your only beef is 'not being informed' how come, when another poster made some comment about 'female only spaces' you practically fell over yourself to agree with her?

Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

The OP knows he has been DBS checked. She has been told by Brown Owl(BO) that this is the case. Her issue is that he is a man which is stupid. Brownies is not single sex for leaders.

It's about all the statistics that prove girls act differently in mixed sex environments and perform better in single sex ones

Yes in STEM subjects at school - I imagine it’s not such an issue at Brownies for 4 sessions.

Guiding is a girls only safe space. Could you please report your findings to guiding HQ?

The only difference is on scouting and guiding joint camps and in paid working roles such as those in HQ.

Voluntary, on the ground evening activities are girls only spaces for a reason.

It's not about safeguarding etc but the thos of Guiding is different to Scouting. There are lots of different cultures and religions around the world that female children are not permitted to attend spaces with men and once it's agreed in UK (where Guiding started) then the rules will be adapted/adopted internationally and that will reduce opportunities for girls all across the world.

Thank goodness your girls didn’t go down the cubs route instead of brownies

It's not about men being paedophiles - it's about young girls being entitled to enjoy activities with other girls without men present.

"Nowhere has OP said men are a risk. She asked if a new volunteer was DBS checked."

I doubt she would have asked if Dave was a woman.

I wish people would stop seeing all men as some sort of enemy.