Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

Sausage I think trust in an organisation is learnt and comes from transparent easy interaction not from making people worry if they should ask. Parents should be encouraged to proactively safeguard their children. They should be empowered to ask the questions that will address any worries they have however silly. I hope the brownies are encouraged to do the same.

The whole discussion about if the crb was asking somehow being an issue is just completely taking away from the real "concern" that it was a man and not a female , would the OP have asked for a crb if there was a girl there volunteering ? I doubt it

DBS

It’s been all female for four years. If it worries her (and importantly she thinks it’s going to be difficult for Dd) surely it’s understandable?

It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding

This is from the op 5zeds. It sounds like the op does trust the Brown Owl and has no reason to suspect they wouldn't follow safeguarding procedure. So why then the sudden doubt and distrust?

I’m not OP hooves.

Do her children not go to school? What would she do if they went in one day and had a male teacher, or does she expect the head teacher to drop her an email anytime there's a staffing change it they need to get a cover teacher in?

Brownies allows male volunteers so the organisation isn't female only. The chance of encountering a male volunteer has always been a possibility.

5zeds but you are trying to justify why the op said what she said. You're trying to provide excuses for it, so why shouldn't we point out the contradiction between what you're saying and what the op actually said?

I don’t know hooves I’m finding it rather ridiculous.

OP ask what you want ALWAYS, encourage your girls to do the same. If it doesn’t work for you then say so. They will either help accommodate or you can find an alternative.

Re 'shoulder-gate', if anything, I'd say that's probably a lot more down to his age than his sex. An older, more world-weary person would be more likely to set the game up, explain the rules and then sit reactively at the side to supervise the children playing it; but a lot of young adults, especially those who are interested in volunteering to help with children, are less reserved/jaded, more outgoing and fun-loving and will instinctively proactively join in the games with the children.

If they're seconded around for short few-week stints, as young people in this area often are, to gain experience of different scenarios of working with children, they also know that they don't have a long time to slowly build up a rapport with the children, so they go straight in at the deep-end rather than wasting three quarters of their time there in building trust and friendship, only to leave soon after. They're often also aware that they fall into that unfamiliar territory for a lot of kids - not a child like them but also not an older adult like their parents.

If you're 53, you might be thinking that your knees and back aren't what they once were and be glad to sit on the sidelines; if you're 23, you're probably still fit and active and relish having an excuse to revisit your energetic playground exploits of not all that many years ago and just enjoy some silly fun.

Your 53yo leaders will often feel led to volunteer because of their positive experiences in having had children; whereas the 23yos are likely driven by their positive experiences of having been children.

In fact, I'd venture to say that (safe in the knowledge that he's obviously been DBS-checked and that he touched her lightly on her shoulder), he probably has a much better idea of how to relate to and encourage children than would somebody gingerly walking up to her and saying "Erm, good evening, young Miss - my name is David and I would be very much obliged if you should care to join your peers and me in a lively recreational activity." It's an instant ice-breaker of the sort that can really help some of the more shy children engage and enjoy themselves without stopping to fret about it. I'd hope anybody would be able to read the signs and react quickly to a more reserved child who doesn't respond, but it's mainly just playground etiquette: left on their own, children don't plan and arrange to play - they just play.

Given the number of little girls attending beavers/cubs/scouts/football/rugby/cricket without this level of pearl clutching, I can only presume away from the 'all men are bastards/pervs/feckless' world of MN, that a greater proportion of mothers/fathers have a more level attitude to male/female leaders that provide activities for children. Parents have choices around who their children meet but those children need to have tools to negotiate those relationships when they grow older.

5zeds - I agree that, even if it might be an obvious question to ask, parents should be encouraged to reassure themselves in any way, however basic.

This is a perfectly reasonable question:
"So, I presume you all have to have regular DBS checks to help out here, then, just to ensure that everything is above board? Does that apply to all leaders and helpers over 18, regardless of how long they're helping for?"

This is ridiculous and prejudiced:
"Aagh, it's a MAN - what is HE doing here?! How do you know he's not a pervert? I really hope you've had HIM DBS-checked!"

Given the number of little girls attending beavers/cubs/scouts/football/rugby/cricket without this level of pearl clutching, I can only presume away from the 'all men are bastards/pervs/feckless' world of MN, that a greater proportion of mothers/fathers have a more level attitude to male/female leaders that provide activities for children

Same - DS is in Scouts and there's a couple of girls in his group. There's several male leaders.

Beavers/cubs/scouts/other clubs and sports=mixed sex activities
Brownies = activity for girls.

Seriously guys engage just a little with the subject. If your child goes horse riding, there’ll be horses there....not so common at swimming lessons. OP thought all the adults were female and queried the presence of a young man bounding about with the children. BO explained. She’s been going for four years and it suits one of her daughters for reasons she doesn’t need to share that it’s single sex.

You know how you keep bleating about if I ask all the helpers if they have dbs? Did you read in my op that I wrote there's been 1 staff change in 4 years? There's a faint clue there....

@nevernotstruggling So likely to have out of date DBS checks as many organisations do not update them and rely on people revealing new convictions.

Beavers/cubs/scouts/other clubs and sports=mixed sex activities
Brownies = activity for girls

Seriously guys engage just a little with the subject.

Yes, it's mixed sex, but the point you're spectacularly missing is that if men are such a safeguarding risk around little girls like has been implied on this thread, why would they be going into a mixed sex place in the first place?

@SimonJT you have to renew every 3 years I've just had a reminder for mine

Did you read in my op that I wrote there's been 1 staff change in 4 years? There's a faint clue there....

Would you still have asked "who's that?" and "is she DBS checked?" if it was a new woman helper is the question though?
If you've already answered apologies but I must have missed it if so.

I’ve never implied that though have I?

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis the 1 staff change I referenced was introduced formally

I’ve never implied that though have I?

Is that to my question? It was meant for the OP, sorry if I wasn't clear.
I'd be interested in her answer.

@nevernotstruggling Lots of organisations don’t bother renewing each year, they just ask people to inform them of any changes. I know our local branch doesn’t bother, my cousin in law (if that’s a thing) hadn’t had one in six years when she left.

But would you have asked the question if it was a female volunteer? You'll say yes of course now but your OP screamed issues with the volunteer because he was male.

the 1 staff change I referenced was introduced formally -

OK, but that's still not really answering my question.
I was referring to this new helper, Dave. If instead of Dave it was a new female helper called Sandra or whatever, would you have said "who's that?" and "Is she DBS checked?"