Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

Obviously not all men are rapists/pedophiles/threats. I do feel for those men trying to break down the gender sterotype barriers and go into jobs/volunteer with children and knowing some will be thinking this.

On the other hand there seems to be some nasty sneering at some on this thread who have said they feel personally men are a threat. A pp alluded to having been vulnerable and seeing how some men behave when they know that/no one else is around.

It's not out of the realms of possibility that for some women the majority of men they have met have been predatory, especially if they were vulnerable/considered weak for some reason.

What concerns? There were no concerns..other than he was male.

If there are genuine concerns then yes of course they need to be raised and there are policies and procedures to support this......objecting to a volunteer because he is male is not a credible concern.

Checking the safeguarding policies of a group organisation is sensible. This isn't what is happening here.

In Scouts volunteers are never meant to be on their own with a single child and I don't think the leaders are meant to be either, and certainly not in a room with the door closed.

I know when I helped at cub camps no adult was allowed in the cubs' tents even when there was more than one cub in there. If a cub needed help in the night then the leader was meant to ask the cub to come out of the tent first. This was not only for the cubs protection but also the leader's, even if one of the cubs was a child of the leader.

Absolutely parents should be able to voice their concerns but from the OP it would appear she only asked because the volunteer was a man, I doubt she would have asked if it was a woman, and what many of us are saying why just ask if it is a man.

This thread is insane.

Is a grown woman actually creating a fuss over her child being it touched on the shoulder by a male during a game of it?

And another refusing to send her daughter to anything with male volunteers?

It’s batshit.

Op just pull her out. Brownies always has a waiting list. Let her place go to somebody being raised to value volunteers and not to cast aspersions over a person simply because of their gender and the fact they were trying to help create a fun atmosphere. It’s really nasty and frankly I’d rather my daughter wasn’t having her Brownie experience ruined by such unpleasant negativity.

She didn’t object though, and her concerns are genuine regardless of weather you share them.

What concerns???!!!!!!!

She’s contacting GGHQ and you can imagine the witch hunt she’ll be whipping up on the WhatsApp group.🙄

People like this ruin things for everybody else.

Oh for gods sake! How do I know? My concerns are not the same as hers but if she’s worried why would you want to squash that? Either answer it and put her mind at rest or arm her with facts to work on.

What concerns???!!!!!!!

I don't think we're going to get an answer
As presumably, quite rightly don't want to outright say it.
Is it that the only concern about him is the fact that he's male and presumably as default is "dodgy?"

My concerns are not the same as hers but if she’s worried why would you want to squash that?

She isn't basing it on anything though apart from the fact he's male.

If her concern is with regards him tagging her before introducing himself to her daughter then surely the best course of action (whether Male or female volunteer) would have been a quick word with the leader about it making you uncomfy and then assuming no repeats leave it there?

Is it that the only concern about him is the fact that he's male and presumably as default is "dodgy?"

I think it's pretty clear that this is the case. How utterly depressing

You’re frankly bonkers. My DC go to cubs, it’s mostly run by men some of whom are Dad’s of children there. They’re all DBS checked, I’m not of the belief that all men are perverts so this is fine by me.

I’ve discussed at length my concerns about male leaders in female groups. I’m bored of it. Just rtft. We don’t know what OPs concerns were but since her dd had suffered previous trauma perhaps she’s less “horrible” and more understandably vulnerable?

There are posters on this thread who are so desperate to air their “I’m not sexist” credentials they are being awful to a worried OP and vulnerable child.

Ans there are some of us who are involved in safeguarding - I get it I really do but the OPs approach isn't helpful.

I also spend a lot of time trying to break down stereotypes with regards careers. Some of the opinions of male volunteers on this thread have been depressing to read. To get into any sort of role which involves working with young people you need to volunteer. How do we encourage more boys/men to consider these careers when their motivations are questioned in a way that womens never are.

Just rtft

I already have.

We don’t know what OPs concerns were but since her dd had suffered previous trauma perhaps she’s less “horrible” and more understandably vulnerable?

So what's your solution then? Segregate all males and females?
Seeing as men are apparently a threat to us and shouldn't be around us on the off chance they're a wrong un?

This is a massive over reaction!

How do we encourage more boys/men to consider these careers when their motivations are questioned in a way that womens never are

Exactly

Well I can say it again
I think carer should be encouraged to air their concerns so that they can be addressed and either her mind is put at rest OR she has facts to work with. How else do you progress?

I’ve discussed at length my concerns about male leaders in female groups

For starters, he isn't a leader, he's a volunteer.

Presumably, you'd rather these groups close down altogether then, through lack of volunteers, than to be able to keep running with male volunteers? Yes, I can see how that would benefit girls. (Not).

I genuinely hope that you don't allow your children to attend any club or school trip that only runs because men are volunteering their time - your attitude is frankly disgusting 5zeds. Can you imagine the harm that could be done to this man if rumours start spreading about this man based on paranoia possessed by the likes of you and the op? He has done absolutely nothing wrong other than to be born male.

I’m not sure I would want to encourage more men to act as leaders/supervisors in brownies, but if I did it wouldn’t be by pressuring parents to ignore their concerns and shut up.

Presumably, you'd rather these groups close down altogether then, through lack of volunteers, than to be able to keep running with male volunteers? nope I think I said exactly the opposite but let’s not let facts get in the way.

Batshit

I don’t have ANY paranoia surrounding this young man. I’m not sure if you’re confusing me with another poster or failing to comprehend what I’ve written

I think carer should be encouraged to air their concerns so that they can be addressed and either her mind is put at rest OR she has facts to work with. How else do you progress?

But what concerns?

Do the volunteers/leaders have DBS checks - valid question. Understandable and if it's a concern of the op then she should definitely raise this query about all of the leaders/volunteers and for each new one. Not just for the male ones.

She wants an advance warning of new helpers - if it's for all new helpers well, guess it's up to Brown Owl to decide if she will accommodate the request. If it's only for make helpers then, on what basis? I can't think of any reasonable grounds that makes this a justifiable request.

He touched her shoulder - and? Would she take issue with a female volunteer doing the same? Was the actual child upset or just the op?