Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

If a person wants to hang around children for all the wrong reasons doesn't matter whether they are a volunteer or a professional.

I went to a girls school, it was a convent too. There were male teachers. Were they weird because not only were they hanging around young girls but also some nuns too?

I have male friends who are dance teachers and teach mainly young girls. Are they weird too?

All volunteers at DS's school have to have references, DBS check and undertake safeguarding training, no difference to the people with qualifications.

I am a rainbow leader.

All the work I do is VOLUNTARY

Lots of jobs require people to have done some voluntary work beforehand.

Girlguiding are always looking for volunteers.

People who want to do voluntary work can therefore think "oh I need to do some volunteering, I wonder if rainbows/brownies/guides could help support me"

The answer is yes.

Every leader over the age of 18 needs to be dbs checked. And tbh you'd never really find yourself in a 1:1 situation in a normal unit meeting anyway. It's good practice (as stated by Girlguiding) to always have 2 volunteers regardless of ratio.

P.S why don't you volunteer to help with the shortage of volunteers since you're so worried about who can interact?

Because it is and I think we all know why it is for goodness sake

It's not weird. It really isn't. You can't even articulate why....unless you're suggesting every man that volunteers to work with young people is a sex offender? Because you know that's not true right?

Georgia do you have a son? Would you demonise them in this way? DS is a Young Leader with Beavers. There are little girls in the troop. Does this make him weird, a pervert?

it’s my personal feelings why does a male want to hang out with a load of brownies ? I’m sorry it’s weird
Georgia, I'm afraid it says more about you than it does about the volunteer.

why does a male want to hang out with a load of brownies?

Errr.. same reasons as a female does?

like @ineedaholidaynow my son is a young leader. He has been through beavers, cubs, scouts and is now an explorer scout doing his Duke of Edinburgh award. He wants to give something back to a movement that his given him so much.
There are more girls than boys in the beaver pack he is volunteering with. He isn"t 'hanging out' with little girls or little boys for that matter, he is supporting their activities and I think providing a positive role model, much like 'Dave '

Ted27 it would break my heart if someone thought DS was being a young leader for bad reasons. I too hope my DS is being a positive role model.

Would your dh and son want to lead brownies though? Really world they?

Why ever wouldn't they? They aren't doing it for their own benefit, it's for the benefit of the children. If they were only doing it because they genuinely loved the activities and interests of the children themselves, they probably wouldn't be that bothered about things that interest young boys either. Even with things like football, I don't think many men find games between 6yo boys particularly thrilling or edge-of-seat viewing.

Believe it or not, a lot of people in the world are caring people who will give up their time and/or money to help other people - children, disabled people, elderly people - all kinds of demographics who might appreciate the opportunities that another person's help could enable for them - and 50% of adult people are men.

Would you be equally as suspicious if you discovered that the driver of the old folks' home minibus for day trips was a man? Bearing in mind that women tend to live longer than men, so it's very likely that the higher proportion of the residents will be female. Would you instantly discount the idea that he might just be a kind person who enjoys making people with limited mobility happy and gains pleasure from the smiles on their faces when they see the sea, or is he automatically a confirmed granny abuser?

For that matter, as we've 'established' that ALL men are dangerous paedophiles and present a serious risk to children, surely any man wanting to become a leader or helper at Scouts and Boys' Brigade is obviously also doing it for perverted reasons, so I'd make sure never to send your young son there. Gay male abusers are still men, and heterosexual male abusers frequently also abuse boys because they get off on exploiting the power imbalance rather than sexual attraction necessarily.

As has been said, adult women very rarely present a threat to adult men, but could nevertheless very easily abuse young children of either sex if they wanted to.

So many of these sweeping generalisations are just so sad.

You do know that not all males are paedophiles don’t you? Also, women are also quite capable of abusing children!

So many of these sweeping generalisations are just so sad.

96% of the theft of small children is perpetrated by women you realise? There's no way I'm letting any of those child-grabbing female bastards anywhere near my children

Girl Guiding is incredibly hot on safeguarding, same goes for Scouts. More than other youth organisations I could mention. So yes, he will have an enhanced DBS.

We had a man helping at both my DD's Rainbows and Brownies. He was not a parent himself and was on his own. He seemed to just enjoy the social interaction and being helpful. He turned up every week and was reliable and helpful which I am guessing is the main criteria.

His not a qualified person of course my children have male teachers

Professional qualifications don't prevent predatory behaviour. But the majority of people go into the child workforce, (oluntary or otherwise) for the right reasons so please let Girl Guiding decide on the suitability of poor Dave.

What are we actually going to do about the scouts, though? Given the dangerous likelihood that men are predatory, surely we need to make sure that all scout leaders aren't men?

Wasnt Baden Powell male?

@Georgia2001

Why does a male want to hang around with brownies? Perhaps he’s getting some work experience to see if he wants to become a primary school teacher.

Qualified professional men are no less likely to assault or abuse your child. You are delusional if you think a teaching degree is a protective factor. Either you think all men are “weird” for wanting to volunteer and/or work with children or you don’t. It’s illogical to think Mr Jones the PE teacher is any different to Dave.

Girl Guiding is incredibly hot on safeguarding, same goes for Scouts. how can you possibly say this when they have bizarre ideas about teens sharing dormitories because of how they self ID??? “Hot on safeguarding” means keeping children safe and behaving transparently with their parents. I’d have LOVED my girls to be guides, but I am hot on safeguarding.

My ds (17) started volunteering with a local Brownie unit when he was doing his bronze DofE. Brown Owl is a friend of mine and has had male DofE volunteers before. He really enjoys it and BO says the girls seem comfortable with him helping with activities. He has continued and has now been volunteering for 2 years. He's also been able to use the volunteering for his silver DofE. DS would like to study medicine. Since helping at Brownies he has started talking about specialising in paediatrics in the future. He is not DBS checked as he's under 18 but is with one of the other 3 (female) leaders at all times. Both District Commissioner and Division Commissioner have visited the group whilst he's been there and have expressed their support for his volunteering.
After reading this thread I feel horrified that people might think there is something untoward or risky about what ds is doing. He is a friendly, sensible, well supervised young man helping and supporting Brownies with fun and enriching activities. He fulfils his DofE volunteering requirements and also gets experience which will hopefully help him to in his efforts to become a future doctor. All this seems good to me. Please can someone explain the problem to me? Not sure if it's relevant but I was a Brownie, a guide and a guide leader (1980s to 1990s) I remember men helping out with various tasks and activities -usually husbands and relatives of leaders.

Well I haven't read the thread but genuinely thought this was going to be about a weird bloke bringing cakes into work or something.

@Hellvelyn for me “leader” roles at brownies are better taken by females. Strong female role models, female only activities and female social interaction. I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand?

And what about what your DDs want 5zeds?

Well @ineedaholidaynow I’m the grown up so I decide if somethings not safe and we go with that.. It’s called parenting if you are the parent, and safeguarding if you are the responsible adult.