Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

Im really confused at the attitude that women need to get into more male dominated environments ie STEM as its isnt ok its male dominated, but then on the other hand men should be kept away from women spaces or any space some women deem to be a womens only space ie brownies! Surely if equality should go both ways. Id also argue that brownies isnt a womens only space if they clearly state men and women can volunteer, they dont claim they r, its just some peoples opinion.
Also just to state im not thinking men should be at 'women safe spaces' ie rape centers for women only and women only Domestic violence shelters etc.

Actually BP started the girl guides so girls could do girly things like learn how to housekeep

Not true. Girlguiding was very similar to Scouts initially - the first set of badges included stalking, cyclist, electrician. BP was surprisingly progressive - and Girlguiding has from the start done all sorts of worthwhile and useful things (as well as housekeeping). I read this recently, which was fascinating... link

I’m sorry no I would not be comfortable with it. All the background checks do not mean anything they just mean there’s nothing on record. You can all say I’m being unreasonable but that’s my opinion. I wouldn’t be sending them till his gone

@Georgia2001 what do u think about male nursery workers or teachers?

@Georgia2001 - what will you do if your children have male teachers?

@Georgia2001 What risk do you think he poses, given that he's supervised whilst he's with the children? And would a woman be able to pose the same risk?

OP if it had been a woman on a placement with Brownies who had come up to her and tapped her on the shoulder and said 'you are it' and you hadn't seen her before, would you have started this thread (sorry if this has been asked before).

DS has been in scouting since he was 6, he now helps out. From what I have seen over the years when dropping him off, or helping as a volunteer, is that most children, especially if it isn't their first time there, just rush off and immediately join in the games when they arrive. This includes boys and girls, especially if it involves running around after each other and making a noise! And they love it even more if the leaders join in.

Georgia how do you plan on dealing with male teachers, medical professionals etc?

maybe playing tag with little girls is potentially opening himself up to problems.

In a single room with other adults (who presumably have indicated to him that he's to join in the game) who are supervising him?

Oh c'mon.
"Sorry Brown Owl, I know I'm here to help but please don't put me in a situation where I have to touch a girl's shoulder to tell her she's 'it', even though I'm surrounded by 20 other girls and three adults"

And the girls with trauma, should they just put up and shut up, then?

The girl guides is an organisation for girls with female and male helpers it isn't a organisation for the support of girls with trauma.

Sara- and while you hug him you could remind him that safeguarding is about protecting himself too, and to think carefully about any touching in order to avoid future accusations, and that maybe playing tag with little girls is potentially opening himself up to problems.

You are being ridiculous. He tapped her on the shoulder - how is that going to.be misconstrued?

Georgia2001

So you wouldn't send your children to nursery, school or groups like cubs or scouts either?

What would you do if your DD was poorly and needed to be seen by a doctor or needed an operation, and the doctor/surgeon/nurse was male? Should healthcare professionals who specialise in children's health all be female?

It’s not often l feel sorry for men. But on this occasion, l feel for “Dave” who has done nothing wrong and is being discussed on the internet in such terms.

OP, in your particular case I think it might be worth speaking privately to the Brown Owl, if you feel you can trust her. If you briefly explain your situation (no need for details, but an outline of the reasons you feel that your daughter's situation is different) then perhaps she would agree to let you know in advance about male volunteers, where that is possible. That would give you time to either process the idea and feel more positively about it, or to make other plans. If the BO is aware of your situation, she will be able to be more sensitive to it.

@Eckhart

Oh absolutely not suggesting it was just saying it could be why he has found himself involved with this particular group rather than having a sinister motive for becoming involved

YABU and ridiculous. Just let the VOLUNTEERS (yes, that's right, unpaid) get on with it. They do have actual lives, and I think you should trust their judgement, rather than expect them to keep you updated on every single Brownie related occurrence.

I've read the whole of this quite long thread and I think it can be mostly summed up as:

OP (and lots of other people on this thread) expect Brownies to be a female only space. It isn't. GG is quite clear that male helpers are allowed. Perhaps they should make it clearer that this is the case.

Some girls would like female only spaces for a variety of good reasons. Whether there should be more of these is a whole separate question; Brownies has never pretended to be such a thing. I expect if OP had said upfront to her daughter's leaders that she had a genuine concern about male helpers, they would have been more pro-active in speaking to her before Dave started.

Lots of posters have tried to bring trans issues into this thread. Whilst important, I think bringing them up here is detracting from OP's actual point which relates to a person who is male and identifying as male.

Sara - he didn’t just tap her on the shoulder, he deliberately went up to the girl who’d just arrived, who he didn’t know and wasn’t playing, tapped her on the shoulder and said ‘you’re it’ with no introduction or explanation. That’s an odd thing for anyone to do. It’s not surprising it set OPs spidery senses off, it shows a lack of judgement and respect ime. He could have said his, ‘ Hi I’m Dave, do you want to play tag with the others?’, I don’t think we’d have heard from OP if he’d done that.
Safeguarding is NOT about thinking that most people are fine, it’s realising that anyone can be a risk.

I don't think OP has said whether her daughter knew Dave or not prior to the meeting? Maybe he'd been in the previous week and said hello?

I would have thought most children would know what 'you're it' means. Other children were probably running around saying the same thing too.

Has the OP said how her DD reacted when he did this?

myplates See what you mean. Sorry, I misunderstood.

His a voulanteer ! His not a qualified person of course my children have male teachers. I’m only being honest about how I would feel as a mum forget all the political correctness it’s my personal feelings why does a male want to hang out with a load of brownies ? I’m sorry it’s weird

Why is it weird? I send male students into schools and community based activities for placements. They're there voluntarily and not getting paid. Why is weird for me but not women?

Oh and they aren't qualified...why do qualifications make a difference?