Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

I would hate to be a man in this age - a rapist/paedophile etc. until proven otherwise - what a life to have to lead.

Yep. And anyone who trivialises that as 'defending the menz' needs to grow up and learn about seeing things logically and from different perspectives.

Imagine turning up to volunteer your time with a group for small boys, and having every father there look at you with suspicion and consider complaining to the group's headquarters about you.

Mischance my husband is great, my granddad was lovely. But that didn’t stop me getting sexually assaulted three times by different people by the time I was 16. And one of them was not a family member or friend.

Men are a threat. They are always some ones son, husband or brother.

Would your dh and son want to lead brownies though? Really world they? Do you think they enjoy air cadets because it’s seen as a more masculine activity? Or would they be just as thrilled as doing activities little girls enjoy?

So, we’re busy teaching our girls that they can like science or football or anything else traditionally masculine, but it’s not ok for men or boys to prefer gentler activities such as crafting and baking on offer at Brownies?

All of them ? Every single one ?

Imagine turning up to volunteer your time with a group for small boys, and having every father there look at you with suspicion and consider complaining to the group's headquarters about you

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males.

Men are a threat. They are always some ones son, husband or brother.

Some men are. How does that mean that it's ok to view every man as a predator?

How.many times have we heard of female carers abusing or stealing from their vulnerable patients? Is it reasonable to view all carers as abusers?

Everyone is a potential threat. That's why we DBS check everyone.

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males.

Aside from the fact that you're wrong there, assuming that the proportion of women who abused boys was the same as that of men abusing girls, would you appreciate being viewed with suspicion, simply for being there? How would you feel of your daughter was viewed so when volunteering?

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males.

Completely and utterly untrue.

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males.

A grown woman with nefarious intent is absolutely a treat to a group of young boys.

*So, we’re busy teaching our girls that they can like science or football or anything else traditionally masculine, but it’s not ok for men or boys to prefer gentler activities such as crafting and baking on offer at Brownies?

Because

A - it’s massively disproportionate the ratio of male to female in science. It’s already unequal. It’s a Male driven environment.

2. Why does a girls space have to change to accommodate men and boys? Why can’t they form their own gentle group of baking?

Threat not treat...

Imagine turning up to volunteer your time with a group for small boys, and having every father there look at you with suspicion and consider complaining to the group's headquarters about you

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males

I can't believe I just read that.

OP are you seriously telling us that you are worried because a young man training to be a youth worker is playing tag with a Brownie pack at a weekly meeting?

I am 🙄🤔😳😞😮 at this thread.

A grown woman with nefarious intent is absolutely a treat to a group of young boys

Are you actually saying men and women are an equal threat to children?

My mum ran a Brownie unit and my dad used to help on a ad-hoc basis mostly involving heavy lifting, transporting things and hammering wooden poles into the ground. He didn't stay at pack holidays or get involved with the activities but without him the girls would not have been able to take part in half the experiences they had. As Brown owl's husband no-one batted an eye lid especially as he was doing things no-one else could be bothered to do.

How often have you volunteered in the four years your DDs have been attending ?

@nevernotstruggling

A - it’s massively disproportionate the ratio of male to female in science. It’s already unequal. It’s a Male driven environment.

As is the ratio of females to.males in childcare and primary education. So, if we need affirmative action to support girls going into STEM careers then we need affirmative action to attract men into childcare and teaching.

2) Why does a girls space have to change to accommodate men and boys? Why can’t they form their own gentle group of baking?

Because GG isn't a female only space when it comes to helpers. It does ask men to volunteer - as helpers and also as experts coming in to help with specific badges.

How.many times have we heard of female carers abusing or stealing from their vulnerable patients? Is it reasonable to view all carers as abusers?

Godo point. My mum has been in care facilities (two different ones) for seven years now. We are dealing with the police yet again, after the third occasions when her bank card has been stolen and used by a carer. (My mum is completely paralysed down one side and largely helpless.
The carers who were found to have done so the first two times were women. 95% of her present carers are female, so when the CCTV is analysed for this latest transaction, let's see what the result is.

Oh, and shall we get into carers physically abusing the elderly? Almost always women.

Are you actually saying men and women are an equal threat to children?

I’m saying that a woman who wishes to abuse a child is of equal threat to that child as a man would be. A woman with nefarious intent is just as capable of causing harm, terror and injury to a child as a man would be, should she have that desire.

Yes, statistically, it is men who are more likely to abuse, but it is not unheard of for women to abuse children.

Are you actually saying men and women are an equal threat to children?

I'm not but you said that women pose no threat to boys - which is completely and utterly untrue.

Why does a girls space have to change to accommodate men and boys? Why can’t they form their own gentle group of baking?

Why does a boys space have to change to accommodate women and girls? Why can't they form their own sporty group of football?

See how ridiculous that sounds?
What about the gentle boys who want to bake?

Would you expect to be told if the volunteer was female?
You're bring ridiculous and quite frankly it makes me angry.
I run a course for a profession which is female dominated and used to be involved in youth and community courses - we don't have enough men doing these courses and entering into these professions and it's a problem. Shitty attitudes like this don't help.

He's background checked

Tbf, this doesn't mean shit, it just means someone hasn't been caught.

saraclara

Exactly my point. When you see the hidden footage from these "nannycams" it's almost always women involved - hitting or abusing elderly patients, or children in the case of nannys, or in stealing from their.vulnerable clients yet women are somehow seen as "safe".

I'm sorry for what has happened to your mum. The people who do such things are the lowest of the low.

Which would never ever happen as women pose no threat to males

Needing to bolster a weak argument using a whopper lie. How anybody would expect this to be taken seriously is beyond me.