Talk me through this - male on placement with brownies

[nevernotstruggling]

The dds have been to the same brownie unit for around 4 years (dd1 waiting to move up to guides). I know the leaders quite well and there has been one staff changeover in that time. The communication with parents has been excellent. I have felt safe letting the dds go on sleepovers knowing that I know all the adults involved. It's actually been brilliant in terms of safeguarding. No surprises or anything parents haven't been informed of. The dds love it. Dd2 is thriving there because it's a small closed group where she feels safe and familiar.

I dropped the dds off this week and a man came up to dd1 touches her shoulder and said 'you're it' I said to brown owl - who is that?? She replied oh it's Dave (not his name obvs). Me - who is Dave??? BO - he's on work placement (something about youth work) . Me - Er is he DBS checked?? BO- yes. Me- Brownies is a girls group!! BO - we have dads helping! No they don't. Not once the whole time we have attended.

Apparently Dave will be there for 4 weeks.

My reaction has been negative. I'm quite annoyed there was no warning of Dave jointing the unit. There have never been 'work placements' before. I think it was be something to do with the church though.

I think parents should have been told. They use a private Facebook group to keep in touch with parents and this works really well so I'm a bit baffled by the surprise!

Should we let rape crises centres be run by men too? What about women’s shelters? Maybe females should just stay in the house eh?
Ridiculous false equivalence as you very well know. Rape crisis centres and women’s shelters are female only safe spaces. Brownies isn’t and never has been a female only safe space. It’s like saying or my good you’ve let a man teach at a girls school but what if there is a trauma sufferer there. It doesn’t mean that you don’t care about young female victims of trauma to say that male teachers can work at a girls school. This is no different.

When I was a guide we had a male helper (husband of one of the leaders). He was fantastic and a great influence. He wasn't there every week, he would come to the days of camp out (went home in a night and came back the next day).

I think YABU. Do they tell you about every volunteer in advance? What about ones coming in for one night to share an expertise? Safeguarding is taken very seriously in girl guiding.

*or my good = oh my god
But you get the point.

Sittinonthefloor I was a shy child too but you must know that’s quite an extreme reaction.

If before tagging my daughter Dave had said 'hey I'm dave great to meet you I'm on x youth placement I'll be helping out for 4 weeks' I doubt I would have posted this thread

Mention that to his superiors, OP, if that's the issue.

But the law makes the distinction for a very good reason — there is a specific word, ie rape, used for non—consensual penetration of a female by a male, with a penis, because of the potential consequences of this, namely pregnancy. Other acts are called different things. This is a very specific crime that only bio females can be the victims of.

That isn't the definition of rape though is it and neither is it true that it's a crime that only bio females can be a victim of because men can be raped by other men.

Anyway that's by the by. This thread is depressing. My son is a teacher and is conscripted to go on residential trips and he also volunteers at a cadet group, as does my husband. 9/10 volunteers at the cadet group, which has both boys and girls in equal numbers, are male. Without these men volunteering neither the school residentials or cadet group would exist but heh, don't let that stop those of you on this thread bad mouthing every man that is decent enough to volunteer his time to help your children. Maybe you could all step.up.and volunteer instead?

Saying these groups would collapse without volunteers so don't complain is a bs argument. This notion has been fabulously exploited by perps.

So the issue isn’t that he is Male but that he didn’t introduce himself to your daughter before tagging her - in which case I can understand and would have had a quiet word with the leader at that point.

"Perps" Really???

Complain if you have something to complain about.
The simple presence of a male volunteer isn't reason for complaint.

So...men get slated for not getting involved but also FOR getting involved.
They can’t win.

Precisely. Go on any thread relating to childcare and stay at home mums etc and you'll see plenty of posts asking why men don't stay at home or take on equal childcare whilst simultaneously complaining about dads at toddler groups, because it changes the dynamic.

So, to sum up men should volunteer with youth groups but stay away from children, they should be stay at home dads but self isolate and never go to.pkaygrouos, toddler groups etc because women and children might be at these groups, men should be more caring but shouldn't ever approach or touch another child including tapping them on the shoulder.

Oh god yes we need men to keep these places open 🙄🙄🙄

Saying these groups would collapse without volunteers so don't complain is a bs argument. This notion has been fabulously exploited by perps.

How so? My DH and son volunteer at Air Cadets. Nine out of the ten leaders are men yet the groups are pretty equally split in the numbers of boys and girls that attend. If the 9 men stopped going then the group's would close so how is that a BS argument?

It’s not just any group though is it? It’s brownies which is for little girls. Plenty of other mixed groups they can join in with if they must.

No, You need volunteers to keep these places open and if it's a choice between no woman volunteers so the place closes or male volunteers keeping the place open - what do you do ?

It’s not just any group though is it? It’s brownies which is for little girls. Plenty of other mixed groups they can join in with if they must.

Plenty of GG groups have parent helper rotas because they are desperate for the helpers, without them they would close. These helpers include dads.

Frankly, the last sentence of your response is disgusting and I wouldn't blame men for just stopping working with kids on the basis of attitudes like yours.

Would your dh and son want to lead brownies though? Really world they? Do you think they enjoy air cadets because it’s seen as a more masculine activity? Or would they be just as thrilled as doing activities little girls enjoy?

You seriously can not compare Air Cadets with brownies.

Posters spectacularly missing the point just to defend the menz! Let they need more help then they already get!

So Brownies should change their policy, to totally exclude men. Is that what some of you are saying?

Men are really quite nice you know. Not all a threat.

I would hate to be a man in this age - a rapist/paedophile etc. until proven otherwise - what a life to have to lead.

How amazing would that be. Brownies - a place for young females run by females. Lovely.

We can but dream eh?

Frankly, I don't know whether to laugh or despair at the horror expressed by some on here at the idea of someone "tagging" someone on the shoulder. You know, in a game of "tag."

So the issue isn’t that he is Male but that he didn’t introduce himself to your daughter before tagging her

If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

My husband has helped out with brownies though when our daughter attended. They needed parent helpers to continue and I couldn't do it because of work so he did.

This isn't just about brownies though. This is about the attitude towards males volunteering with youth groups, about a man having the audacity to tap a child on the shoulder, about the assumptions being made on here that it's entirely proportionate and acceptable to assume that any man working or volunteering with children is doing it for nefarious reasons.

That's a disgusting attitude to have when there are hundreds of men volunteering their time, teaching our children and are decent people.

Do you think they should change their policy, though, fibreoptic. I'm not talking about pipe dreams, I'm talking about reality, and things that can be changed in real life, now.