This made me smile today (race/ethnicity)

[ArriettyJones]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51611514

Little spot of good news

I know in the end it’s a commercial decision but good for Tesco nevertheless.

(I did look and couldn’t see another thread in this. Apologies if I missed one.)

You googled him in AFRICAN art. The western Judeo-Christian rendering of Jesus, which is unsurprisingly the one that persists and is used most commonly, is of a white man. You're embarrassing yourself and you're a racist. I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again.

I am not a POC, but the number of deliberately obtuse posters on this thread is really boiling my piss!

Dismissing someone's experience just because you have never been through similar is hurtful and belittling. Just because someone has seen darker shades of tights available in a store once doesn't negate the experience of the millions of women who struggle to find them, ffs!

How often does black or middle Eastern Jesus get shown in the mainstream? It's just another example of the erasure of people of colour by white people. God I can't believe after this whole thread people are STILL arguing the toss. State of you.

For anyone doubting that western society is geared around white people, just do a few Google image searches. "engineer", "lawyer", "pilot", "doctor" etc return mostly white, mostly male pictures.
Now Google "unprofessional hairstyle"...

Nduja the church where I grew up had a blond baby Jesus and a blond grown up Jesus. I remember as they were the spit of my very blond cousin and uncle.

But that's not the point is it? You can't really miss the point, are you after a reaction? Listen to people, don't dismiss them. There's so much you can read on this subject if you genuinely don't get it, it's not accidental.

But either way you don't need to be a dick about here.

Genuine question, as part of my job is purchasing first aid supplies;

I've already doubled our spend on plasters by changing over to clear ones instead of beige ones. Would it be better for me to keep on with the clear plasters, as the kids this affects have already noticed there's been a change and I'm not fishing for Cool White Woman Points ?

Or should I try to justify another increase in spending by ordering a selection of colours and let kids choose the type they want (as long as it's suitable for the cut/graze they have)?

The current supplier doesn't have different shades, so I'd have to make a case for adding another supplier to Finance, especially if they were from a more expensive range (Tesco ones are very expensive compared to the bulk buys). I also don't want to buy ones that look suitable, but actually turn out to be shit at what they are designed for - sticking onto skin.

What would be best? If this makes such a huge difference to people, I'm happy to do it, as it's not just about covering a cut or having to hide a grazed knee. But I wouldn't want anybody to feel hurt, insulted or as though I'm taking the piss.

On the subject of white Jesus, I had a children's bible and Jesus was definitely white and blond. No one else was.

www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FECl7dqEXUAMzv7G.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsullivanamy%2Fstatus%2F1164597827126927366&tbnid=ColBikFiLg4lbM&vet=12ahUKEwjhsebpkPHnAhWK0-AKHU7tAYAQMygAegUIARDeAQ..i&docid=0svb3rmdllAn2M&w=1200&h=1200&q=1970s%20children%27s%20bible%20blond%20jesus&ved=2ahUKEwjhsebpkPHnAhWK0-AKHU7tAYAQMygAegUIARDeAQ

Experiment

just for a second close your eyes and picture God - what do you see? I bet it's not an African man in a dashiki.

I'm atheist but I still have an image of an old man with a white beard.

Those of you not seeing it, try looking for it. There's going to be a bit of sarcasm now, just a warning.

Look for TV presenters, models, awards for actors (Oscars, Golden Globes etc ), TV adverts, TV shows.

Yes there are some examples but the default is white and usually male.

How often have you seen a WOC in a lead roll that has nothing to do with her sex or her skin colour?

When you do encounter POC on TV have a look at the skin tone. WOC can apparently read the news (not present daytime TV or light entertainment though) but only if they have a paler skin colour.

Although Alison Hammond gets the odd 5 mins on 'This morning', a show that has run for 30+ years, no main presenter has been anything other than white. This is a show that was filmed in Liverpool and then London, places with large BME communities, so why are the presenters white?

Even the language we use associates 'black' (the colour in general not skin colour) with negatives. Black ball, blackmail, black market, black magic.

I'm not a POC. I have taught teenagers where I've been the only white person in the room. I once had a class writing CVs. I asked a couple why they hadn't put their languages down.

Answers ranged from "I only speak it, I can't write it" to "I don't have a GCSE in it"

Some students were fluent in 3 languages, but because the languages were Bengali, Urdu, Punjabi, Somali and I can't remember them all, the students didn't regard them as skills. A grade E GCSE in French made the cut but not 'fluent in spoken Urdu'.

Incidentally their course was health and social care, so speaking, what we refer to as a 'community language' could be the difference between getting an interview.

It was heartbreaking to see an entire group of people not value their skills.

There is a bias in languages, we (as a society) think someone who speaks 5 European languages is clever, we tend not to think the same for Indian or African languages. Why do you think that is?

OK rant over.

Its depressing that so many white people refuse to accept the experiences of BAME people.

It will be interesting to see how successful the bandages are - and quite frankly i dont care what colour the plaster is as long as it stops the bleeding.

I thought blue was mainly for catering staff as the plasters were watertight.

I guess Jesus appears as black in Africa because Africa is mainly black. I imagine Jesus appears as white in the UK/Europe as the UK is 85% white and until about 60 years ago a much higher percentage white and when the paintings/ sculptures were done in the past even higher percentage white.

Its appearing more and more that the muslims have the right idea - no pictures of Mohammed as it takes the focus of the person and his deeds rather than the - he was black/he was white/he was purple with pink spots.

quite frankly i dont care what colour the plaster is as long as it stops the bleeding take it you're white.

he was purple with pink spots.

I hate this attitude. Skin colour is not a joke and this whole attitude of 'oh I don't care if you're brown or green or stripey!' is reductive and offensive. No one is purple with pink spots. Plenty of people are literally murdered for being BAME.

Exactly, @CommunistLegoBloc. All those self-congratulatory little 'priding myself on being race-blind' jokes about not minding whether people are 'black, white, yellow or green!' are the epitome of white privilege.

And to anyone, particularly to any Christians, who think it doesn't matter or it's 'only natural' that Jesus has tended to be imagined as a soulful-looking, white-skinned Anglo-Saxon, rather than a brown-skinned Middle Eastern Jewish man -- look at how often in illustrated bibles or religious art, Jesus is white, but 'bad guys' like Herod, Pontius Pilate and the Jews who demanded Jesus's death are darker-skinned or swarthy.

And imagine if the body that was depicted on crucifixes was that of a visibly non-white man being executed by the state?

Precisely @BoudoirPink , to consider that a man of Jewish or Middle Eastern heritage died on the cross for Christians to have redemption challenges the core of what many believers actually believe. An American philosopher once said that if the white western world digested that a man who resembled a black man/ Jewish man /Latin American / Middle Eastern man died on the cross for our sins, it would shake the modern day church. Fewer white people would confess to be Christians, institutions would be drastically changed.

Very true @sashh , modern world status quo does not appreciate non Latinic languages or Northern European languages (Finnish, norwegan, Germanic etc). Anyone who isn't fluent in French etc is not considered to be educated. How many mother tongues have been lost by the diaspora attempting assimilation? Yet in reverse how many people of European heritage have lost their mother tongue on resettling in countries where they are not the dominant ethnicity? Take white South Africans for example or Namibians of German heritage. I think that it is great that they hold on to their cultures and are permitted to do so. Exams are available in certain languages like Afrikaans in addition to English. Celebrate! A GCSE in Urdu, Swahili, Turkish or Hindi should be appreciated and honoured. Think about the writers we could learn from if their books were translated?

Great news, as others have said, next step DD's ballet shoes. I bet they will be ££££ though. Fortunately she's only 5 so doesn't need tights yet!

I've come back to this thread today am at disgusted by some of the attitudes. I'm white and also comfortably off. My only real detriment is being female. Dismissing what other people are experiencing every day is just callous.

If someone tells you they are being treated differently/badly believe them.

Would you disbelieve a woman telling you she was being abused or discriminated against. What would
You say on a thread about a man disbelieving a woman.

Try and open your mind to the idea that someone else's experience will be different to yours!

foundmykey your post is one of the clearest and level headed messages I’ve seen. I just had to make this point.
Sadly, there is an undercurrent quite often present just as you describe it (on other issues as well) and there are a lot vocal obtuse minds.

As regards depictions of Jesus, where I grew up, they all had dark hair. It is probably a reflection of the local population as that’s where the artist would usually take his inspiration from, unless it was a travelling artist?

Very bemused as to why my post has been deleted for saying that artistic representations are socially constructed according to the geographical and temporal situation of the artist!

It is probably a reflection of the local population as that’s where the artist would usually take his inspiration from, unless it was a travelling artist?

Exactly my point!

I guess Jesus appears as black in Africa because Africa is mainly black. I imagine Jesus appears as white in the UK/Europe as the UK is 85% white and until about 60 years ago a much higher percentage white and when the paintings/ sculptures were done in the past even higher percentage white.

Yep. Again, this is the point I was making.

@ArriettyJones

This is nice too -

www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/apr/01/pointe-shoes-black-ballet-ballerinas-dancers

Ballet shoes have always been a pale peachy pink because it was assumed dancers were, too. Now a British footwear company is striking a blow for ballerinas of colour everywhere

Just going to leave this article on white fragility here.

Quite a few parallels with this thread...

Why would anyone draw a man born in the Middle East as white?! It’s nothing to do with the majority of local population, it’s because it’s fucking racist.

If nude is a specific colour instead of - supposed to look nude coloured, then why is nude lipstick a different colour to nude tights?...

Yes it is @pasmayalabeille !

Nice that it’s another U.K. company too

I am starting to wonder why everyone thinks three shades is enough though. I feel like five might give better choice with only slightly more effort,

@ArriettyJones

Yes, progress seems to be painfully slow when it comes to inclusion.

This thread has also made me think of this article in French

www.liberation.fr/france/2016/02/17/si-les-noirs-parlaient-comme-les-blancs-le-hashtag-qui-retourne-les-cliches_1433989

Which, roughly translated is titled - if black people spoke like white people - the hashtag trended on twitter a few years back in France - and I still remember this one -

Also roughly translated - Her skin was the colour of ham and she moved with the grace of a female wolf from the Périgord

The original author explained that she felt her skin tone was always described by makeup brands as food - chocolate, coffee, caramel, cinnamon, cacao, mocha etc ...