Robbie and Ayda new baby. Another surrogacy discussion.

[EachandEveryone]

It fascinates me and thats not to upset everyday folk who are on the journey. They used the same surrogate that carried their little girl that must be just over one year? The poor womans hardly had chance to recover. I know she wasnt forced!

They already have a boy and girl. I dont understand celebs at all. I wonder if it was in the UK or USA? Anyway, Im sure the little one will be very loved thats the main.

www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/robbie-williams-ayda-field-fourth-child-surrogate-instagram-a4362756.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1581708410

I don’t understand this right for a “complete” perfect family - like Kim K / Kanye they’ve had the perfect 4 healthy children of two boys and two girls. Less age gap between those born by surrogates (I guess if it’s not your body, why not hurry it up?)

I have huge sympathy for people considering surrogacy who have not been able to carry their own children. I don’t know what I think there, it’s very complex. All I know through is that in the real world a lot of people have to finish their families before they feel they are “complete” and truly finished whether for health or monetary reasons or just bad luck. We have a larger gap than we’d hoped for. I know others who conceived their first really easily and have struggled for the second. Others who started too late age-wise (usually because they weren’t in a stable relationship until their late thirties) to have anything more than 2 children in a very short space of time, perhaps more rushed than if they’d had the luxury of more time. I don’t think there is any kind of right to create this perfect, balanced family that you envisioned and planned.

Haven't RTFT. But said to DH "oh look another sssleb has bought a baby"

These couple of posts from the last page Sum up my view well.

Gr3y so using your code of ethics it's ok to exploit people if they agree to it

I'll go and hang around outside a food bank or Jobcentre, get myself a cleaner for £2 an hour from someone desperate enough. Buy someone's bone marrow from a supported living centre. Maybe hang around in a deprived area and get a kidney. I found the toddler stage more fun, so perhaps I can find someone with pnd I can convince to sell me their 2yr old

Oh no, silly me, they're all exploitation and we have laws to prevent me using my privilege to take advantage of people that may be vulnerable. Unlike the noble cause of buying a newborn

Unless you think the law should be changed so I can legally do all the above, and you'd be quite happy for me to exploit your dc/dp/ parents/ siblings then it's hypocritical to agree it's ok to buy a newborn

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I'm curious to know how people who think surrogacy is 'renting a woman's womb' and 'buying a baby' view donor egg/sperm IVF. That's buying a biological commodity as well, isn't? So are you against that too

Babies aren’t just a “biological commodity” though, that’s the thing. Organ donation, IVF, whatever, that’s fine- it’s not like sperm is going to be missing the ballsack it came from. There’s loads of research that babies know and are bonded to their mother in the womb. Being separated from their birth mother is acknowledged as being a trauma for adopted babies, even if it is ultimately for the best. But when money’s involved, it’s suddenly fine? Makes no sense to me

I do wonder what would happen if a baby wasn't born 'perfect'. If there was some anomoly that wasn't picked up on scans or if there was trauma during the birth process that caused problems. And if an anomoly is spotted at the scans could the surrogate be forced to abort? I suppose all of these things are sorted out in legal documents to which we don't have access but I do wonder about it.

Babies and women's bodies are not commodities.

I only read the 1st page but this should be up for discussion because celebs are normalising womb trafficking.

I do wonder what would happen if a baby wasn't born 'perfect'. If there was some anomoly that wasn't picked up on scans or if there was trauma during the birth process that caused problems

A poor woman in Thailand was left with a baby with Down syndrome after the purchasers declined to take their product back to Australia because it wasn't perfect. The poor woman chose to raise the baby rather than give him to an orphanage iirc but I can't imagine the payment she got will go far towards the cost of raising him for the rest of his life

Yes and he was one of twins, wasn’t he @CodenameVillanelle? The couple took the girl twin home... and then it transpired that the father was a paedophile.

Omg yes I had forgotten the paedophile aspect, and the twin. Those poor children and that poor woman.

Thats just appalling.

It does make you wonder what if these babies became hypoxic during the labour if the celebs would still take them or would they pay the mother to keep them?

In the event of faulty goods the purchasers could ask for a refund from the incubator, maybe some compensation on top for the disappointment and inconvenience.

I bet they were born by planned caesarian to avoid any birth-related risks anyway.

Im not sure ifvthats proven really.

It's not in babies' best interests to be separated from their mothers at birth.

Whereas most mothers would happily give the baby to dad to care for, although dad is a complete stranger to the baby.

I just wish that people who have no experience with either side of altruistic surrogacy would stop commenting on it. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Your objection is to a woman renting out her womb? Either women can do what they choose to do with their own bodies or they can't. This whole train of thought that "women can do what they want but only if it fits in with my moral superiority" is problematic for me.

This needs to be posted again. If someone altruistically wants to be a surrogate then you don't get to forbid it.

Whereas most mothers would happily give the baby to dad to care for, although dad is a complete stranger to the baby

Most mothers would absolutely not happily give the baby to dad to raise whilst having no contact with the baby WTF are you claiming? Dad doing his share of nappies, winding and cuddles is hardly the same as dad doing all the care whilst mum has no contact with the baby. Babies build attachments to their father/other parent/carer but this is best served with a foundation of their mother providing their primary care. It's a biological imperative.

There is some evidence that babies can recognize their fathers voice when they are born.
But in reality mothers don't usually hand their dc at first over to others for any length of time when they are first born. There are exceptions such as neonatal care but kangaroo care is usually encouraged there.

There plenty of people on this thread who understand enough about child development to realize that losing their birth mother is rarely in the best interests of a baby.

This really is an instance where the needs of babies should be prioritized over the wants of adults.

Not against surrogacy.
But it seems a bit extreme to go through for dc 3&4.
Also even if it were ivf only i would think similarly. Because there is no guarantee ivf is risk free (slightly increased risk of birth defects)
So if it were ivf+ surrogacy just for chosing the baby sex or to maintain the genetic mum shape that would be an issue.
I dont personally think taking a baby from the surrogate is going to do that much damage.

Commercial surrogacy stinks. As does commercial trade in eggs/sperm.

Oh yay another thread on surrogacy but with a different celeb to slam. How original.

Also have concerns about aspects of “altruistic” surrogacy, and indeed egg/sperm donation. Eg the potential thoughts/feelings of DC.

But commercial trade is just highly unethical.

If someone altruistically wants to be a surrogate then you don't get to forbid it.

And yet most Western European countries - including those with a strong record on women's rights such as Iceland and Norway - do precisely that. With very good reason.

I wonder if there will ever be a u turn. Celebrities normalise like the do other things —dont get me started on how every other A lister seems to have a trans child at the moment—

I am more concerned that they have 4 children when couples should be having smaller families.

Celebs like them and the Beckhams, Ramseys etc all having 4 or more children are hardly setting a good example are they

Celebrity surrogacy is the latest baby acquisition trend after the baby buying from poor countries fell out of fashion.

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