If you are lesbian... what constitutes losing your virginity

[Redtartanshoes]

I’ll begin by saying I really don’t want to cause offence to anyone and am probably going to show my ignorance but this was born from a random thought and I can’t get my head round it. Sorry if it’s crude.

So. A Virgin is someone that hasn’t had intercourse. Right? I think? Penis in vagina.

Obviously a woman who has only ever had female partners has never had “this”... does this mean that she’s a Virgin despite being in a sexual relationship? Or does penetration count as sex and therefore mean the woman is not a Virgin. But then if you had a man and a woman who did similar things, would they not be virgins anymore? Or would the woman not be as she’s been penetrated but the man is as his penis has been kept in his pants?

I genuinely can’t think of the answer. Am I missing something? Being thick?

Fwiw my mum has been in a same sex marriage for 10 years, but was married to my dad before this... but (probably rightly so) I can’t ask her what she thinks.

Sorry x 100000000 if I’ve offended anyone, was just genuinely curious

I had to look up scissoring/Tribbing. I don't get it. Rubbing my bits against other bits really doesn't seen very arousing. I can't imagine getting the sort of action/friction I enjoy through oral/toys. It seems like it is a bit benign and banal.

REsponding to OP, no time to read all the replies so I may be repeating.

There's no such thing as virginity, it's a concept used by men to divide women into good women (non-sexual women) and bad women (sexual women) and it's been used for centuries to repress and control women.

I can't think of a single time I or anyone else I know has used the phrase.
As it's just a social concept anyone can apply it any way they like.

Am I the only one to find it weird and vaguely repulsive that you should be trying to categorise lesbian sex by the same terminology and rules as straight sex?

If losing your virginity for women was classed as the first time they are penetrated, then using a tampon would count?

I would say the first time you have a sexual experience whether it be penetration, oral, fingers, toys - whatever, that would be losing your virginity. I don't like the term much though to be honest!

I believe that medically the term 'virgo intacta' (virgin) applies to women who have an intact hymen. So I'd think that any penetration would qualify as 'loosing one's virginity'.

BTW, I absolutely agree with anyone who considers it to be an outdated and toxic terminology.

I thought traditional belief was the breaking of a woman’s hymen membrane - by whatever means maybe? That said, a woman can break her hymen riding a horse apparently. I know the first time i had sex there was no postcoital bleed...so who knows?

If you aren't a lesbian, then it's not appropriate for you to speculate about their virginity and loss thereof.

If you had a real reason why you need to know that's one thing. Starting a discussion just because you have a random thought and need to scratch an itch, is intrusive and pervy and none of your business.

I think few people would ask the same of gay men, so we have been socialised to think that penetration with a penis or penetrating with a penis is the 'only' way to 'have sex'. I would count any intimate genital touching as sexual activity and things like oral sex are far more intimate than p in v imho... It's a bit ridiculous to consider yourself a virgin if you've been putting others' bits n pieces in your mouth

Op thank you for starting this discussion, it’s made me think about it, I have children and we talk about sex and different types of sex and I giant thought about this so will give me time think about.

I agree with PPs, virginity is a social construct born of the idea that a penis is so powerful it changes who a woman is. It’s basically useless as a concept in society nowadays.

I would classify any sort of sexual activity as having sex, whether or not penetration is involved. So for a woman who has only ever had sex with women, her first time was the first time she had sex, whatever that looked like.

I would also say that from a medical point of view, any sexual activity has the potential to spread STDs, HPV etc. The only time it might be necessary to know whether someone regularly participates in penetrative sex specifically is if you’re doing an internal/speculum exam, as if you haven’t had penetrative sex then it can be more uncomfortable. Also potentially if you needed to rule out pregnancy. I can’t think of any other time when it might be relevant (off the top of my head).

I think its whatever the person defines it as. Theres no hard and fast rule.

Lesbian checking in. I think it was the first time i had a full on sexual experience. So more than someone masturbating me and me them , nudity and bumping ugliest involved.

I’ve had enjoyed sex with both genders. I have never “lost” my virginity. It is manspeak for controlling and, sometimes, speaking in derogatory terms about women.

Anything “lost” can be found again. I’ve always preferred the sex positive term “gaining womanhood” rather than losing virginity.

The gender of the bedfriend is not relevant. Some woman go for men, some go for woman, some go for both.

I will no doubt be judged for this but do not totally agree that the concept of virginities only matters to makes. As a Christian it was important to me to marry a man who believed that sex was a gift from God that he only wanted to share with the person he intended to spend his life with. I did not want someone who had chosen to have previous sexual partners unless he had become a Christian later in life and changed the way he thought about sex. So, despite being a woman, finding a Virginia was important to me.

aargh.....virgin.

@vdbfamily I dont think anyones going to judge you for that. Its a very personal thing and totally dependant on sexual orientation, culture, religion etc.

It is what it is to the person concerned.

If you aren't a lesbian, then it's not appropriate for you to speculate about their virginity and loss thereof.

This is nonsense!

@Redtartanshoes

I don't think you will be judged for this at all - it sounds perfectly reasonable.

I did not want someone who had chosen to have previous sexual partners

But I'm presuming that it wasn't just the act of PIV that you wanted your future husband to have abstained from - if he had had a lot of girlfriends and had oral and anal sex with them, I'm guessing that would have still 'counted'?

So it's not about PIV as some definitional sex act, it would more be about his attitude to sex as a whole?

My feeling is even if it is oral sex of some kind, it is sex, so whether it is between two women, two men or a man and a woman.

Wasn’t this mode of thinking an issue in law for a long time- e.g lesbianism doesn’t exist in law because no ones getting penetrated. It’s the same concept that means rape could only be carried out by a man, but now we have the equal-in-seriousness “sexual assault by penetration” which has an equal sentence to rape and can be done by anyone with any implement- either on their body or otherwise.

Sort of depressing that the traditional idea of virginity and the traditional laws of rape have all been centred around penises.

It's an interesting question OP and although I understand why some posters see it as outdated it is something that isn't straight forward especially in this day and age.
The world has evolved so much and I'm only in my 30's.

If losing your virginity for women was classed as the first time they are penetrated, then using a tampon would count?

Which is one of the main problems girls considering using tampons have to deal with (never mind Menstrual Cups) - other people expressing an inappropriate level of concern/an attempt to control with what they do with their own bodies and sexualising a legitimate method of dealing with a natural bodily function.

I remember I read once that at the time the bible was written 'virgin' meant a woman who hadn't had children. This was originally what the virgin Mary was.

That sounds a very strange definition. I know there's some crossover in interpretation between 'young unmarried woman' and 'woman who hasn't had sex' as, in the Jewish culture in Bible times, this would have been considered one and the same thing.

In fact, I recall reading somewhere suggesting that, in the culture of the time, the act of having sex with somebody meant that you were now considered as married to them.

However, the whole concept of a virgin birth would surely be completely unremarkable if all it meant was 'a young woman will have her first baby'. Why would it even be thought mention-worthy, much less be considered miraculous holy doctrine, if it basically meant that 'a baby will be born to a woman who is having a baby'?

Agree with those that say virginity is a toxic concept created to control women

And it is (obviously) framed from a male perspective.

Virginity tests for girls and women still happen in a variety of circs around the world. Even though it's been known for ages that the hymen doesn't work like that.

Virginity is tied up with wanting to know that your wife has not had children fathered by other men. In certain Christian circles in the US teenage girls will give a boy a blow-job, or even have anal sex, but won't agree to penis in vagina. That way they're still virgins. In Saudi Arabia, an intact hymen is still seen as extremely important. "Good girls" are careful not to do anything that might rupture the hymen.

*I had to look up scissoring/Tribbing. I don't get it. Rubbing my bits against other bits really doesn't seen very arousing. I can't imagine getting the sort of action/friction I enjoy through oral/toys. It seems like it is a bit benign and banal.

Lesbian here. Tribbing, is only a small part of sex, and rubbing two sensitive intimate areas is enjoyable. We use toys, oral sex, and penetrated sex. Just with out a man . Trust me there's ALOT of action and friction.