Am I really going to have to fight for 3rd c section?

[Connie222]

Just had my booking appointment and was told that my chances of being granted a 3rd section are almost non existent as the hospital and consultants are pro vbac.

Both my previous sections were elective and I had to fight tooth and nail for them (my preference). I just don’t know if I’ve got the fight in me again (different hospital this time in a different area 200 miles away).

The pregnancy had been awful so far and I can’t take the thought of being made to have a birth against my consent, I’m honestly thinking of terminating.

@Saddler - what about a woman who has been sexually assaulted in the past, who is traumatised by the thought of giving birth vaginally - so traumatised that they become depressed or even consider termination - do they deserve a c-section in your book? I certainly hope so.

There are very valid, non-medical reasons for wanting/needing a c-section, and I don't think these should be ignored or down-played as you seem to be down-playing or ignoring them.

@amazedmummy if it's not necessary it shouldn't be an option. If it's for medical reasons then absolutely 100%.

Do enlighten us Saddler as to what you deem necessary NHS procedures?

Some procedures do cost the NHS more than others. Some drugs have intolerable side effects for some people and they need to use a more expensive one, some cancer suffers require expensive immunotherapy drugs rather than standard ones. Treatment has to suitable for the individual. You can't just go saying to someone who has broken their leg and it needs pinning to give a better result that the hospital only offers plastering?

OP - There has been a fairly comprehensive review of the literature and a VBAC-2 has double the risk of uterine rupture compared to VBAC-1.

You can find it on the HNS website here and it links to the actual study.
www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/planned-caesareans-safer-women-past-history-caesarean-sections/
Print it off and take it along to the appointment.

I also find it useful to ask the consultants if they would honestly allow their wife and unborn child to take those risks. I doubt they would.....(I don't know why anyone would).

I am a huge fan of midwives over all. But...certainly where I live, the midwives responsible for pre-natal care can be extraordinarily blinkered and dismissive.

In my first pregnancy, a serious condition was not diagnosed as they pooh poohed me. Luckily, I saw the area's senior midwife at 38 weeks and in discussion and then on reviewing my notes she was alarmed enough to insist on taking a blood test on the spot, resulting in an emergency consultant appointment the following day.

In my second pregnancy, in my booking in appointment, the midwife started giving me the "home birth" spiel. I honestly thought at first that she was just checking boxes and would move on but it quickly became clear that she really really thought it was something i should consider - I'd had a terrible first pregnancy, with complications (for which there was a good chance they'd reappear), I was overweight, nearly 40 and had had a terrible first birth with DS which resulted in a theatre delivery with ventouse because it was, apparently, too late for a safe c section but they thought they were going to have to do one anyway and resulted in my overwhelming memory being of the midwives and doctor all screaming at me in their desperation to get DS out.

When I was being induced for DC2 and told the midwife this she literally face palmed. As did her colleague who was with us. They couldn't believe that I'd been suggested as a home birth candidate.

This is my long winded way of saying if you can't get a consultant's appointment, try for a different midwife or even a GP appointment to get this taken seriously.

Blimey there are some stupid arseholes on this thread. Imagine being so dim and arrogant that you thought anyone would give a fuck whether you think the NHS should pay for elective sections or not.

Cannot believe the rank misogyny on this thread.

@Ispy123 elective sections are not more risky than vaginal birth. You are clearly very ignorant and have swallowed the horseshit from the likes of NCT. I’m sorry for your continence issues, they should not be part and parcel of giving birth, and a woman who wishes to minimise her risks of this via a section ought to be respected.

It might be your preference but you aren't the one with the medical degree. I have a preference for a particular brand of my medication but they won't allow me to have it as it has slightly higher risks compared to the one they will prescribe. Preference should not over rule safety of patients or even NHS cost

Nonsense.

1. plenty of people with medical degrees do choose elective sections when it is their body on the line.

2. preference overruling safety doesn’t apply here. Yes there are risks to sections, but there are horrendous risks to vaginal birth which a section avoids eg fourth degree tear, levator avulsion, hypoxic brain injury to baby, and other risks which it reduces eg prolapse, incontinence. Vaginal birth isn’t a safe option. There can be catastrophic consequences, and even where there aren’t, loads of women are left with long term impairment which would have been avoided with a section.

3. in plenty of cases, patients do have a choice as to whether to be treated with conservative management or surgically. Why should giving birth be any different, except that it’s an exclusively female issue and people don’t give a shit about women’s suffering or birth trauma?

30 weeks is too late for OP because she wouldn’t be able to terminate at that point if her section is refused, and she is clearly terrified about vaginal birth.

OP good luck getting your section

@ahenderson270 well said! I couldn’t agree more

OP by 30 weeks isnt too late. If having a C-section they prefer to do them as close to 40 weeks. (that's what the consultants told me)
I had a c-section at 39 weeks. I actually did get the choice to start with and it wasn't until 28 weeks that it wasn't a choice anymore due to medical reasons.

I was told that if you've had sections before that you will have them automatically in future... Although they say they don't like doing more than 3.

I would mention it to your midwife again.
Good luck OP and Congrats 😊

@SproutMuncher I wish more people understood that elective c sections are not particularly high risk.

I have no intention of having a third DC. But if I did, I would be INSIStiNG on an elective C section. DS's birth was horrendous. I sort of toyed with asking for an elective c section for DD but was convinced not to. Luckily, I was induced as if I'd gone into labour at home, the chances are she'd have been brain damaged or died (although, to be fair, it's also fairly unlikely that I would have gone into labour at home based on what was going on, so there's that). Instead, she was born by emergency c section about half an hour after my second, very mild, contraction.

There's no doubt in my mind that elective c sections would have been a lot healthier for all concerned if we'd known in advance. I appreciate you can't know. But the point is that there are significant risks with vaginal birth that people have an annoying habit of glossing over. My own birth was vaginal and extraordinarily dangerous, leading to significant long term physical effects on my body.

Dickheads are out in force I see.

OP it’s absolutely your right to request and be given a c section, and is frankly the safer option considering the circumstances. Best of luck

I had to massively push for a second csection after an emergency csection for my second. They were only 14 months between as well so the risk for rupture is higher. I’d had preeclampsia with the first and hypertensive crisis because they missed all the signs. I just wanted one birth where I didn’t almost die! Still had to argue so much for it though.

Why are so many people who could clearly fit their knowledge of the subject on a postage stamp assuring OP that attempting a vaginal birth after two sections will be the safer option?

@Drabarni cheers for that.

@Drabarni are you actually for real?

@Drabarni I had a CS because I wanted one. It was great. I highly recommend it.

The push bit was a joke OP, sorry, that's why I added the grin.
The latter though, does need some consideration, a friend had two and was told this, that every subsequent cs comes with this risk.

@Drabarni that’s completely wrong but okay🤷🏻‍♀️

@mumsnet I think you need to check this thread as there a lot of people giving non-factual information.

I always thought that once you had a CS the choice was yours for the next births due to the risk of rupture. Can you switch hospital? In both places I had my children in I was given a choice of hospital. I don't think they can turn you down but it sounds like they are trying to save money. I did have a VBAC for my second birth but that was a choice given to me which luckily was OK.

As ever, in this kind of thread, people have very little understanding of how to assess and quantify risk.

Agree norealshepherds, it's getting a bit dangerous on here.

Do contact PALS though OP.

Fuck me, this thread is dripping with everything that is wrong with mumsnet. Some of you are disgusting human beings, seriously who needs the patriarchy when you've got posters like those on here condemning you, right?

OP, fight for your c-section and you definitely should not be justifying yourself on here.

You have every right to birth your baby in any way you wish. Fight for that right and don't back down.

Good luck.

OP, I suspect whoever ya told you this is trying to force you towards VBAC even though you've had 2 previous c sections - this can't possibly be hospital policy. Even after having one EMCS, I was given the choice of how I wanted to give birth to my second child and indeed chose an elective section. Keep bringing it up at every midwife appointment and hospital appointment. If you are refused a c section, request to speak to someone who will abide by your request. There are dangers with VBAC just as there are with c sections and which ever risks we decide to take, it is OUR choice as women and it is OUR CHOICE what we do with our bodies. Ignore those who are saying your "too posh to push". You will be fine, they can't stop you from doing what you want. Can you not asked to be referred to your next closest hospital for your c section instead? It may take more travelling and what not buuuuuut it may cause you less emotional stress to know that your getting your c section at a place where they're happy to give it?

Pregnancy made me feel super vulnerable OP, as did the birth. I had such a shit time with a particular midwife (she made me afraid that my baby wasn’t moving and refused to do a heartbeat check, sending me to triage in a wheelchair, while I was contracting every 3 minutes) my labour stalled and didn’t pick up again leading to an emcs. Everyone acted like I was choosing the easy option and that i “would find reserves of strength I didn’t know I had” to push, even after already having been in labour for 50 hours. I felt so vulnerable and institutionalised- dependent on the midwives good graces, while they all rolled their eyes at me and said I was feeling pressure not pain (epidural failed twice). If I could’ve had a c section as soon as it was clear my labour was not picking up again I would’ve in a shot but nobody treated me with the agency to make that call. I have nerve damage and had PTSD for the first year of DS’s life. Lucky for me only that.

Do you have some one in real life who can champion this for you? You are full of the pregnancy hormones which add to that sense of vulnerability and fear and sounds like you are struggling with your mental health. Getting someone to firmly confirm your requests with you, might really help you feel assured and listened to. Don’t be afraid to ask for a mental health referral so they can see the distress this is causing. And get you the section that you should have.

To those saying birth is risky regardless of how it is managed- that’s the point of having doctors and midwives who should remember why they went into the caring profession in the first place and bloody well act in the patients best interest.

Best of luck OP

A CS isn’t extreme, what an odd thing to say. What is extreme is a Mother feeling so distressed at the thought of being forced into a VBAC she is considering a termination.

I had an ELCS with my last baby after two extremely traumatic births and a traumatic miscarriage- two of which nearly killed me. I had to fight tooth and nail for the CS, it really took a certain shine away from my pregnancy (which was a ‘miracle’ pregnancy after multiple miscarriages). I even had the consultant try talking me out of it when DH and I were sitting in our scrubs ready to go to theatre ffs. I almost broke down at that stage and wanted to tell her to fuck off. The CS was by far the best birthing experience I ever had, I’m so glad I made that decision.

A VBAC is incredibly risky after two previous CS’s, I’m amazed they’re even contemplating this let alone insisting on it. FWIW it’s completely your decision OP, they cannot force you to have a VBAC at all. You can change hospitals if that’s an option for you, do whatever it takes basically.